Friday 2010-11-12 Dev. update and Discussion

[Necrobaron]

Originally Posted by The Kraken

Actually it was the allies, in late 1945. Blame them



This is primarily a legal and also a political issue. It has nothing to do with reason and common sense. That's why all these discussions here are completely pointless. Each and every argument has already been exchanged 10 years ago with Il2 and before that, with other sims.

And if user-made emblems are possible then it's a non-issue anyway.

I was just referring what Brando had said. I'd imagine Germany has had many opportunities to repeal such restrictions if they so chose to. I also understand that common sense and reason has nothing to do with this. That is the problem. It's completely idiotic to think that by banning a symbol, the idealogy will go away. If the German people and others allow it, the idealogy will flourish, swastika or not.


You are right that if user made emblems are indeed possible, everything is a moot point.

Originally Posted by Freycinet

Dear me, the swastika debate.... yawn.

Oh, poor Freycinet. I think we've wasted his valuable time. Funny since it seems he has taken it upon himself to be the defacto thread police, making snarky, useless and needlessly critical comments towards others. If he had taken the time to try and read the debate at hand rather than coming up with his usual dribble, he would see that the original point was regarding whether or not 3rd parties could add their own markings, swastikas included. The inability to add custom markings was a new possibility that had not been brought up before.

Anyway, with that said, I think my point has been made and will leave this topic be. Thanks for the civil discussion guys. It didn't snowball as badly as I feared it might.
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[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Freycinet

Dear me, the swastika debate.... yawn.

+1

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Necrobaron

This isn't directed at you specifically Foo'bar and I'll probably regret even making this point since it'll probably make me a "bad guy" but...

That'd be too bad if markings are not editable. In the case of WWII-era German planes specifically, it bugs me when history takes a backseat to censorship and political correctness. As much as I disagree with it, I accept that some countries like to whitewash history by making some symbols illegal. That's their perogative and I understand that Maddox Games doesn't want to open themselves up for litigation (though I think it's ludicrous to think a flight sim would be a lightning rod for Neo-Nazis). However if SoW, or whatever it's called now, is going to ship with missing aircraft markings, I'd at least like to keep the avenue open for 3rd parties to add the correct markings for those that can legally view historical correctness.

I'm certainly no Nazi sympathizer but for all the nitpicking about inconsequential details, it's surprising to me that more people aren't bugged by the lack of historically correct markings on German planes. Like it or not, the swastika was there. To me, leaving it off is tantamount to leaving the fin flashes or roundels off RAF planes, tantamount of course not in idealogy but in historical correctness.

Ok, rant over. Sorry for veering off on a controversial tangent so...flame away!

I understand what you’re saying and agree with you, BUT I don't think these laws are not designed to "white wash" history but to remove the symbol from use by hate groups most of whom have no direct link to the Nazi movement.

I live in a sleepy little back water of a city on the opposite side of the world to where most of the suffering and destruction occurred. I have NEVER seen a Christian church with graffiti or desecrated with anti-Christian symbols or slogans. But I have seen Mosques, Synagogues, and even a small corner shops owned by non-European owners, tagged with swastikas, messages of hate and neo-Nazi diatribe. It is something defective in the minds of these people.

The laws are created to be able to punish these people.

As a good, honest, law abiding citizens of my country (where these laws are not in place by the way) and of our world community, I have accepted that the loss of historical accuracy in a computer game is one of the prices that I have to pay because of these idiot’s. Just as I accept it doesn’t matter what your race, creed, religion or cultural background there’s still going to be a percentage of any group of people that are complete a***holes, unfortunately, at the moment, a good percentage of them seem to think that being filled with hate is cool.

Sorry for going off-topic.

[Necrobaron]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

I understand what you???re saying and agree with you, BUT I don't think these laws are not designed to "white wash" history but to remove the symbol from use by hate groups most of whom have no direct link to the Nazi movement.

I live in a sleepy little back water of a city on the opposite side of the world to where most of the suffering and destruction occurred. I have NEVER seen a Christian church with graffiti or desecrated with anti-Christian symbols or slogans. But I have seen Mosques, Synagogues, and even a small corner shops owned by non-European owners, tagged with swastikas, messages of hate and neo-Nazi diatribe. It is something defective in the minds of these people.

The laws are created to be able to punish these people.

As a good, honest, law abiding citizens of my country (where these laws are not in place by the way) and of our world community, I have accepted that the loss of historical accuracy in a computer game is one of the prices that I have to pay because of these idiot???s. Just as I accept it doesn???t matter what your race, creed, religion or cultural background there???s still going to be a percentage of any group of people that are complete a***holes, unfortunately, at the moment, a good percentage of them seem to think that being filled with hate is cool.

Sorry for going off-topic.

I just don't think extremists should be allowed ruin things for the rest of us. I may not agree with what they do or say, but I feel they have the right to say it. Punishment should not come at the cost of free speech, but now I'm getting even more off-topic than I was before!
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[Friendly_flyer]

Originally Posted by Foo'bar

No markings on that, only colors. Markings, riveting/panels, weathering comes all from separate layers wich aren't editable (if I've got luthier's words right).

If you make your own skin, you generally want your own markings on them. I suppose the markings can be turned off like in IL2? Some of us skinners also like to ad things like dirt, over-painted damage etc. It won't look good on a very small file, no matter if the rivets and lines are in another layer.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Foo'bar

Finally no swatiks any more

How disappointing. The easily offended PC people have got in first.

If you forget history then you have more chance of a repeat

Originally Posted by Osprey

How disappointing. The easily offended PC people have got in first.

If you forget history then you have more chance of a repeat

So if we don't put swastikas on the aircraft in SOW then the world will once again be plunged into war?

How about you just shut up and let it go? Oleg has already said there is this new law in Russia about adding that kind of content, and despite what people like you say, he's not about to lose this game and his livelihood over it.

Let it go!

[Flying_Nutcase]

Originally Posted by speculum jockey

...
How about you just shut up and let it go?
...

There seem to a number of people who insist that others "shut up". Maybe it's just me but it seems pretty arrogant and inappropriate in a forum (well, anywhere). People have the right to voice there opinions.

As for the "this was discussed ten years ago"; maybe there are a few new faces around here who have no jolly idea about IL2's 'ancient' history. (BTW not referring to your post heywooood, which is light-hearted)

Food for thought. m(0.0)m