Friday 2010-11-12 Dev. update and Discussion

[Foo'bar]

Originally Posted by Friendly_flyer

I hope you are going to allow for the regular size skin too though. Markings are not going to look good in 64 x 64.

No markings on that, only colors. Markings, riveting/panels, weathering comes all from separate layers wich aren't editable (if I've got luthier's words right).

Finally no swatiks any more

[klem]

Foo'bar !!

LOOSE TALK !

Oleg will have you for that

[Foo'bar]

Originally Posted by klem

Foo'bar !!

LOOSE TALK !

Oleg will have you for that

Okay, err... perhaps I've misunderstood luthier

@Oleg: there's a problem with the station building's scale in that screenshot. Please check email!

[JG53Frankyboy]

Originally Posted by Foo'bar

No markings on that, only colors. Markings, riveting/panels, weathering comes all from separate layers wich aren't editable (if I've got luthier's words right).

Finally no swatiks any more

the III/JG53 (at least a lot of its pilots) didnt use them in a period of BoB anyway

[Necrobaron]

Originally Posted by Foo'bar

No markings on that, only colors. Markings, riveting/panels, weathering comes all from separate layers wich aren't editable (if I've got luthier's words right).

Finally no swatiks any more

This isn't directed at you specifically Foo'bar and I'll probably regret even making this point since it'll probably make me a "bad guy" but...

That'd be too bad if markings are not editable. In the case of WWII-era German planes specifically, it bugs me when history takes a backseat to censorship and political correctness. As much as I disagree with it, I accept that some countries like to whitewash history by making some symbols illegal. That's their perogative and I understand that Maddox Games doesn't want to open themselves up for litigation (though I think it's ludicrous to think a flight sim would be a lightning rod for Neo-Nazis). However if SoW, or whatever it's called now, is going to ship with missing aircraft markings, I'd at least like to keep the avenue open for 3rd parties to add the correct markings for those that can legally view historical correctness.

I'm certainly no Nazi sympathizer but for all the nitpicking about inconsequential details, it's surprising to me that more people aren't bugged by the lack of historically correct markings on German planes. Like it or not, the swastika was there. To me, leaving it off is tantamount to leaving the fin flashes or roundels off RAF planes, tantamount of course not in idealogy but in historical correctness.

Ok, rant over. Sorry for veering off on a controversial tangent so...flame away!
________
Desire4you

[Romanator21]

You'd be surprised how offended people get. I built a model of a "Val" dive bomber and applied red circle decals to the wings - people called it a "Zero", and "the Kamikaze plane" and one person said, "You know what they did to my country?" I was surprised with the reaction to say the least. I guess building a model automatically makes me a sympathizer. You know, there are people who don't fly German planes in IL-2, because it is "wrong".

I wonder what will happen when I get around to making a model of a Finnish Buffalo with Hakaristi.

Anyway, the Russian version of IL-2 shipped with swastikas, and there was always a segment of code that told where they should have been applied (some place on the rudder). Programs like MAT Manager simply replace the missing texture. So, is this not going to be possible in SoW?

Oh, and the skins are 100% editable, with rivits, weathering, and bump-mapping going on top automatically. It wouldn't be that hard to photo-shop a swastika in, right?

[Trumper]

Originally Posted by Necrobaron

Ok, rant over. Sorry for veering off on a controversial tangent so...flame away!

Well put,nothing wrong with your post.Markings that are historic and accurate should be included and able to be removed if necessary.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Necrobaron

This isn't directed at you specifically Foo'bar and I'll probably regret even making this point since it'll probably make me a "bad guy" but...

That'd be too bad if markings are not editable. In the case of WWII-era German planes specifically, it bugs me when history takes a backseat to censorship and political correctness. As much as I disagree with it, I accept that some countries like to whitewash history by making some symbols illegal. That's their perogative and I understand that Maddox Games doesn't want to open themselves up for litigation (though I think it's ludicrous to think a flight sim would be a lightning rod for Neo-Nazis). However if SoW, or whatever it's called now, is going to ship with missing aircraft markings, I'd at least like to keep the avenue open for 3rd parties to add the correct markings for those that can legally view historical correctness.

I'm certainly no Nazi sympathizer but for all the nitpicking about inconsequential details, it's surprising to me that more people aren't bugged by the lack of historically correct markings on German planes. Like it or not, the swastika was there. To me, leaving it off is tantamount to leaving the fin flashes or roundels off RAF planes, tantamount of course not in idealogy but in historical correctness.

Ok, rant over. Sorry for veering off on a controversial tangent so...flame away!

Nope, you are right. That sort of censorship is silly but those countries can do what they like. I'm a bit miffed that I have to be subject to laws that don't pertain to me.

I don't REALLY care if it is there or not, but since there is no good reason for it to be omitted then it's wrong to not have it in an otherwise historically accurate sim. The ability for a third party to add them should not be curtailed.

But maybe even having that ability is a violation of the law in some countries. I suspect that is the case and why the developer will not allow such third party skins. If that's the case then I see it as those countries imposing their moral will on other countries.

Splitter

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Necrobaron

However if SoW, or whatever it's called now, is going to ship with missing aircraft markings, I'd at least like to keep the avenue open for 3rd parties to add the correct markings for those that can legally view historical correctness.

+1 on that part. I respect the decision of countries not to show a symbol, but it is a pity if their decision impacts on others. Particularly given that the subject is those countries committing atrocities against the countries their decisions are now affecting.

Originally Posted by Splitter

The ability for a third party to add them should not be curtailed.

But maybe even having that ability is a violation of the law in some countries. I suspect that is the case and why the developer will not allow such third party skins.

A simple switch (markings on/off) may be banned, but they obviously can't ban the ability for a third party to paint skins (they could ban those third parties from making certain skins available in their country, though that can be hard to police). To ban the ability to make skins would be like banning pen and paper. There’s no reason why the publishers can’t produce the game with historical markings, but only sell censored copies in countries with a ban on Nazi symbols.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

... There’s no reason why the publishers can’t produce the game with historical markings, but only sell censored copies in countries with a ban on Nazi symbols....

Yes, but I think Oleg stated some time ago that he did not want to produce different versions of the game. It may also be that "producing" a historically accurate sim may be illegal in Russia. In other words, Russian law may prohibit even producing accurate software for export.

Yeah, a lot of people think the swastika should be banned. Ok, I get that (I don't agree but I get it). Of course, the "Red Star" and "Hammer and Sickle" are banned in some countries too (many people were oppressed and died under those symbols too).

So if we follow that line of thinking, how should Russian planes be marked? Should "you" have to play the sim without those symbols on Russian planes because another country banned them?

Nothing I have said should be construed as negative to 1C's decisions regarding the legalities. My comments are about the laws themselves and the effects they have on others.

Splitter