Official wish list for King's Bounty 2

[Mandea]

"We consider the future of games to be in the MMO genre."
bullshit. Biggest lie. WE want money and that's where most come from would be a better statement.

Single player games will always exist. I have no pleasure playing against a human opponent nor mood (most times). But I'm sure one day we will see KB2.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Mandea

"We consider the future of games to be in the MMO genre."
bullshit. Biggest lie. WE want money and that's where most come from would be a better statement.

Single player games will always exist. I have no pleasure playing against a human opponent nor mood (most times). But I'm sure one day we will see KB2.

Is it the biggest lie? Maybe just a little misleading. If people are willing to spend more money there, then clearly there is a sizable market of players there. Even if the ratio is an average MMO Player generating 2 times more than a single player, you still need the basic numbers to make it worth while. Whereas the most hardcore of MMO players will spend far more than the average single player, you got weird dudes like me who is willing to buy this game as a downloadable and rebuy it as a retail copy.

In short, as single player lovers, we are probably in the minority now

Once enough MMO's flop (you'd figure they would realize that by now, but they claim they want to break into the Diablo-esque niche), we should hopefully see another type of game return, hopefully turn based, but it really could be anything.

Would be nice to see more high end turn based strategy games come back. But hey, remember the first King's Bounty was released over 20 years ago. I just hope we don't have to wait another 20 years for King's Bounty 2.

[jake21]

So two comments I guess:

I'm clearly disappointed they have gone this route as I am personally not interested in MMO. However, i will note that KB seemed to stagnate a bit (esp with regards to area building) from the first game (the third had only marginal changes from the second; and the second used quite a bit from the first with a very simpilistic overall map; which seems odd as MMO generally thrive on well constructed areas; but perhaps their MMO will not be area driven).
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While I wish them luck (and hope that one day they will return to well conceived single player games) I think you are being a bit harsh on their decision. While clearly money has a role here; they probably desire a break from what they have spent the past 3 years working on and it is generally healthy @ the personal level to do something very different every few years. Conversely their market spreads from Russia to Eastern Europe to Europe to USA and I suspect the size of their market spreads in a similar fashion. I.,e., if their largest market is in Russia and former Eastern Block then MMO makes good business sense providing they have an offering that will appeal to their market.
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If they are very successful in this venture perhaps they will have enough capital to fund two teams (one to maintain the MMO and hopefully one to do a new and creative single player game).
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Last but least they did provide us an editor so perhaps the community will develop a nice add on (hopefully they will fix some of the most glaring issues with the editor). I personally have not yet fired up the editor but if my creative streak returns perhaps I will give it a shot (I used to do work on diki-muds; but have not done anything graphical). Alas I hate hassles so I will definitely wait until the comments on the editor sub-board are more positive.

[onepiece]

@Ckdanascus; "you got weird dudes like me who is willing to buy this game as a downloadable and rebuy it as a retail copy" Now that's a comment (and a deep purse). I take my hat off to you!!

[Mandea]

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

In short, as single player lovers, we are probably in the minority now

I disagree (I need real official numbers to see the whole picture) but that's not the point. Even if we are it's only temporary. Everything is cyclic in this world

[pavned]

I was hoping for a King Bounty 2 or a Space Ranger 3!

Very sad they decided to take the MMO path!

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Mandea

I disagree (I need real official numbers to see the whole picture) but that's not the point. Even if we are it's only temporary. Everything is cyclic in this world

Well, just anecdotal evidence. I would surmise we are the more sophisticated gamers. Would you agree, there are less sophisticated gamers compared to "normal" gamers? Walk into a game store. The average person there, is the average buyer.

How many times do you hear normal, casual gamer people ask...

"can I play it online?'
"does it have good graphics?"
"oooh I love trophies!"

I don't know about you. When I tote the powerful game play of some older games, people just go "ugh the graphics look so bad", I don't want to play it. Or, it is too hard to learn!

Instant turn off for them.

Or, if you got a game with bad graphics, but it is highly addictive, it tends to be only online.

Like that maplesyrup online game or whatever.

Most successful games so far? 3d shooters. Call of Duty, yeah? It can be played ONLINE and it has GOOD graphics, and it probably has some form of trophy system.

By the way, I never played Call of Duty or the sequel or whatever. Halo, etc. I won't deny that there is money for the developer there though.

I'm clearly the minority demographic here.

I think this game is pretty easy to learn, but in hindsight, trying to explain it to my brother... I can see it has a fairly high learning curve.

People don't usually love that.

I'm not saying we don't exist as a somewhat sizable force. But for economical reasons, we are a relatively horrible return on investment for software developers.

Sure you will run into a handful of people who long for the older games and such, but if we were all peasants fighting 1v1 in the KB arena, we'd lose horribly even with buffs.

Unfortunately, I think we are at the end of the turn based strategy revival already.

[onepiece]

Ckdamascus; while it's true that online (be it multiplayer or MMO) it's king now (even Call of Duty or Halo are bought for it's online modes), it's not that false that single player it's a minority.
It's more correct to call it..."diverse" (in terms that there are too many people in it and they are a little..."tired" from all the junk games that there are now.

Most games now are simple commodities (in the sense of sold to the masses) so they have a weak singleplayer or one that get's old very quick so they tend to be overlooked by "hardcore" gamers but if the thing has a strong multiplayer, they it's pure money.

KB has a strong singleplayer but has lacked multiplayer (even now the editor doesn't allow it). And it's developed by a company that doesn't have a history of big hits at worldwide scale nor it's of the most played genre (hack'n slash, RPG or FPS) so it lacks that massive appeal the others have.

Is the game that niche? I wouldn't say so. I would say that more that it has been very bad marketed to a wider audience (how many people you know knows this game?). Plus the game has some mechanics (lots and lots of text, no voices, slow start, extremely long duration, and some mistranslations) that doesn't appeal to that many people.

Now do we know of much money the Katauri or 1C have made from KB? If it was a lot, they would have continued but if they went the MMO way I assume they haven't made that much (of course this has some trouble because MMO are way more expensive than non-MMO games, so they would have need to win a lot of dought or they got a big publisher or partner)

Now, can we blame them for going that way? If they don't have success yes. If they do no. Katauri are part of 1C (I think) so they also have some orders from above to do what's more profitable.

Now I believe they are going that way (MMO and hack'n slash) because we're seeing a revival of the genre (was never dead but it has come more alive now) from various titles: Titan Quest (sadly Iron Lore has closed but are now formed as a new company that's developing a new game), Sacred (the II was not good and the company got sold; I think the new publisher is going to try Sacred 3), Torchlight (from the guys that had mythos until they went bankrupt because of Hell Gate London) and more importantly: DIABLO III (no need for presentations). And this one is probably gonna come in 2012 (the same date as Royal Quest), so while I don't think 1C or Katauri are gonna be competition (or they would be ripped off), I think they are gonna try for "complementation": As when you get tired of playing one, the other is similar yet has something new and you don't need to learn how to play it (no learning curve).

Are we at the end Ckdamascus? Let’s do a little history on what’s happened recently: HMMV had 3 games (expansion included) that didn’t made a huge impression, they had a spin off in DS and PSP plus there is now HMM Online and the next game (Heroes VI) is going to try and get the winning formula again. Disciples III, well I haven’t played it but seems nobody liked it. Another big name? Not that I can’t think of (maybe someone has some other game?). And of course KB, AP and CW.
So at the end, none of the above have done a “revival” per se of the genre. Now why was it?...multiplayer (MMO Online doesn’t count). That severely limits the market and the interest of the public as the genre is limited to people who love more slow paced and thinking thank heavy action. Think of how many people follows professional chess vs people that follows professional soccer, basketball, tennis, etc. So without it, the player is only limited to play against the computer (and we know how much we like to B**** against the AI).

Now if they did the correct thing going MMO, only time will tell.

p.S: Sorry for the long message.
EDIT:

Originally Posted by Nike-it

Royal Quest will have Diablo style gameplay. And about payment, it definitely won't be free .

Now i don't know how they are gonna compete against the massive amount of free MMO that will be available in 2012.

[joasoz]

I find it rather odd when they get successful by making a quality single player strategic game, and then say that the future is in MMO`s. A great KB2 would make more money and give great experience to the team. Instead they risk it all on making a MMO. People here say that they go where the money is. As far as I have read not many MMO`s are financially successful. Most of them flop and a few manage to make money. Only a select few are money machines. Look at Age of Conan and the fiasco that has turned out to be.

KB2 would have been the best choice. Alas it is not to be

They ended the great seires on a bad note for me. The editor released in Crossworlds gave me hope, but I find NOTHING on the forums to download and play based on the editor. A hoax??

[Dwagginz]

Originally Posted by joasoz

They ended the great seires on a bad note for me. The editor released in Crossworlds gave me hope, but I find NOTHING on the forums to download and play based on the editor. A hoax??

Oh, come on, be fair! It came out in the middle of September, and it's not even November yet, so give people time to make something after getting to grips with the editor.

R.E. The "niche" aspect mentioned above; King's Bounty is based off a long-dead franchise (King's Bounty, funnily enough), is developed by a Russian developer and published by a Russian publisher, is a hybrid of turn-based strategy and RPG, is PC-only and is an entry into a "sub-genre" that never got big. King's Bounty is pretty niche, but Katauri have succeeded with it because they developed a high-quality title that was unique enough in today's market to satisfy a number of people. As onepiece said, the only other competitors are Disciples (Which didn't do brilliantly with its third iteration) and Heroes of Might & Magic/Might & Magic Heroes (as it was renamed for the sixth game), neither of which are high profile franchises now. I think Fantasy Wars/Elven Legacy were similar, but they're not really a franchise as such, and never got much success.

R.E. Katauri making an MMO; If I'm still aware of it in 2012 then I'll look into playing it, but I don't think it's the right thing. The MMO business is seriously saturated and in the next two years we have Guild Wars 2 (Heavy hitter), DC Universe Online (Heavy hitter) and Star Wars: The Old Republic (Heavy hitter), not to mention there'll be another WoW expansion probably in 2012 (If they keep up the 1 per 2 years speed), FunCom's The Secret World, Runic Games' Torchlight MMO, Interplay's Fallout MMO, a good number of expansions and I'm sure there'll be more coming out. I don't wish them failure on this product, that would be wrong of me. I just don't think Katauri or 1C will find success with this product because it'll be overshadowed by bigger and heavier fighters.

Champions Online has had to go F2P to stay afloat, EverQuest 2 is experimenting with F2P, Pirates of the Burning Sea (I think it's called that) has gone/will go F2P, LotRO has gone F2P. We could be here for a while listing games that haven't had the success they either need or deserve. The market's even worse with free-to-play MMOs because there's so many of them around. Royal Quest, I fear, will just be another drop in the ocean of online gaming and I don't think 1C or Katauri need to contribute to it. Look at the feedback to Royal Quest, it seems (to me) to be largely comprised of "We don't need this", "Why are they doing this?" and other statements questioning the need and the wisdom in regards to making this game. Katauri have made their name with high quality single-player games, and I don't see why that should cease to be. I'm just guessing here but I would wager that more people want to see a King's Bounty 2 or a Space Rangers 3 than an MMO or seeing Katauri go down in flames.