Orcs on the March thread

[atlatea]

Hmm I thought Giant Killer was available for the Furious Goblins at a minimum, but it doesn't seem to be in the manual, so I guess it is new.

Ok, so it is a normal ability, not a "ranged attack", so it bypassed your oil cloud. Sounds fair, considering it drains adrenaline from the goblins. Just call it... "Magic Missile."

Huh? I am fairly certain Dancing Axes is NOT affected by defense (the Defense Score), neither is Reign of Fire, or Life Leech. They are only affected by the unit's resistances, no more, no less. Most higher level monsters do have native resistances, so they might seem to take less damage, but pretty sure you can have a Defense of 999, and it will not change the damage one iota.

So, there is nothing outrageous about the ability bypassing the Defense stat. It just does way too much damage.

You could argue that the computer should NOT be allowed to start with Adrenaline Level 2 with orc armies. I'm not completely sure if this is a passive ability of the Blood shaman or not. If it is, then it is merely a bad game mechanic, where they never considered how deadly this would be on the other end of the stick.

Well ,the fact proves that you're completely wrong my friend, BB Shockwave is the one that is right. Ok, i'll do some detailed analysis.

All abilities never bypass defense, ok then, try to use your black dragon reign of fire to hit giant for example, then hit peasant with the same black dragon, do you notice the very high dmg difference, note that both have 0 fire resistance, well... how do you explain that? that's because of giant and peasant high defence difference.

Besides the astral attack and probably the other orcs abilities, there are no abilities (be it skills or talents) that bypass defence status.

Goblin axe thrower in AP doesn't have Unstopable ability, only Zeroing. Check it again for yourself (revert to your AP campaign).

Again you're wrong, dancing axe never bypass defence status, at least in AP, though it seems the same in CW, my lv 5 stacks never bothered by dancing axe, even if it's from hundreds of orc shaman, yet astral attack from goblin shamans and orc shamans (especially goblin shaman) does much more dmg than dancing axe, i have 70% astral resistance and 50% magic resistance. However that dacing axe hit very hard to my low lv stacks, which explain they don't bypass defence status like astral attack.

Note that dancing axe and astral attack of goblin shaman have same damage, yet the astral attack does way more damage than dancing axe. The only explainable reason is that astral attack bypass defence, while dancing axe are not. I know with the same leadership, you can field more goblin shaman, so even if their damage are the same, goblin hit harder, indeed, but why the diffence is so high.

Note that goblin shaman leadership is 130, orc shaman is 200. Let's say you have 4k leadership (20 orc shamans, 30 goblin shamans) and your target has 0 astral and 0 magic resistance, without considering the defence stat, at same leadership goblin shaman should hit with 50% more damage than dancing axe to target with , but the fact proves otherwise, i mean goblin hit like 250-400 % more dmg than dancing axe, reasonable explanation? Astral attack bypass defence.

Ok, i don't care if those shamans are enemies or orc are overpowered (i admitt orcs are the most overpowered race now), but the problem is player can field them. Because orcs are so overpowered, most KB players especially those that never play 2 previous installment, tend to stick with orcs. This limit the troop choice of this game which destroy one of the purpose and beauty of the game.

[BB Shockwave]

Thanks for the confirmation, Atlatea. I think it was a mishap on the developer's side - they wanted an attack that bypasses all Resistances - hence the Astral Damage - but in their error they also made the attack bypass all Defense as well.

I think, after the fix, Goblin Shamans and Blood Shamans will still be powerfull, but not ridiculously over-powerfull. I mean, their attack will still do Astral Damage, something that no enemy has resistances against, thus a Blood Shaman's Astral Strike against a Black Dragon will do more damage then a Shaman's Dancing Axes.

And yeah, the only units who can act again after killing an enemy (or taking damage) in AP were the Gorgul, Gorguana, Demon and Executioner (and the Assassin after using Murder). Goblins, I remember, even with Zeroing in, were laughably weak enemies, I never had any problems against them.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by BB Shockwave

Thanks for the confirmation, Atlatea. I think it was a mishap on the developer's side - they wanted an attack that bypasses all Resistances - hence the Astral Damage - but in their error they also made the attack bypass all Defense as well.

I think, after the fix, Goblin Shamans and Blood Shamans will still be powerfull, but not ridiculously over-powerfull. I mean, their attack will still do Astral Damage, something that no enemy has resistances against, thus a Blood Shaman's Astral Strike against a Black Dragon will do more damage then a Shaman's Dancing Axes.

And yeah, the only units who can act again after killing an enemy (or taking damage) in AP were the Gorgul, Gorguana, Demon and Executioner (and the Assassin after using Murder). Goblins, I remember, even with Zeroing in, were laughably weak enemies, I never had any problems against them.

Why guess? Let's do the math to truly confirm. If what is said is true, the door swings both ways and it means abilities can converge to 3X damage if Attack/Defense come into play. I just did a quick test, it does! My lone emerald dragon was able to do 160ish damage while sporting a ~+40 attack advantage, but the base damage is only 50-70.

40*0.033 =~ 1.2, so
1.2 + 1 = 2.2 so
(50-70)*2.2 ~ 110-154.

It also means, on the same token, the Orc attacks can never do 3X damage from the base damage, but the base damage is so high, this hardly matters. ;(

I stand corrected, I thought it didn't work that way. This makes me look at the Defense stat in a totally different way now (and the Attack Stat).

I tend to agree it was probably an oversight, or if they intend to have it be a neutral attack (unable to increase and unable to decrease), it should have a lower setting.

Sniffles, in long matches, those goblins started doing some big damage to me. I've always been intrigued by them due to the zeroing in ability.