Make the game more "believabale"

[KnightFandragon]

Penetration still doenst make any sense to me eitehr but I think you dont usually penetrate heavy tanks b/c thier armor is armor_heavy and so somewhere, hidden deep in the bowels of the game are shield Hitpoints which you have to go through before you can start to penetrate and kill stuff. I say this b/c in my games I lined up my KV6K, Panthers and Tigers of both the I and II then let them shoot otehr Panthers. and of the 3 tank guns, a 76, 75, 88 and a King Tiger 88 the Pantehr took 3 hits...its like it takes 3 hits to damage the armor enough to start to penetrate armor. I know this game has "damage buildup" but idk hwo exactly that works but thats what im figuring it is. Also, ive shot the Tiger I with my KV6K and its modded 76 and the Tiger takes no less than 2 hits in the side to kill it, no matter what range, angle....only shots from resonable angles though. I let the Tigers shoot my KV and it took quite a pounding but it to died after like 6-7 shots on its front from teh Tiger gun....all guns of which I modded to be more powerful. The damage build up thing makes sense again b/c when i played my mission I got into a pissing match with the pantehr I put on it as well as all the Panzerfaust on the map hitting my tank and a Panzer IV killed my tank despite its penetration being a MAX of 125 and mt tanks armor is 160......going by just numbers that is impossible but the damage build up it then makes sense...my tank had been hit so much its front hull just gave in. So im sure thats what goes on in MP.

[Evilsausage]

Nah it just depends on where the shots lands. Also the tank penetrations in the editor/single player is very off.

[Crni vuk]

well that the penetration is FUBAR in singleplayer is obvious anyway (Sherman 76w taking out Jagdpanthers from the front ? sure ...).

Thing is just that it feels to me like in multiplayer many believe Mow to be "realistic" when infact it isnt or to explain it more that way just alows for a small glimpse in to realism. Well that MoW is not a simulation and never was sold as one is obvious but that you get punished so many times for trying tacatical flanking or anything similar is not very supportive to the gameplay either in my eyes.

To that you can also add the the rather strange behaviour of guns like the 122mm of the IS2, British 17pf and a few other guns which are all way to powerfull. I would like to know what base they used for the 17pf for example. Was it the usual APCBC or the very rare APDS shell ? While the APDS had quite outsanding qualities (on paper ...) it was nearly useless in combat, somewhat reliable APDS shells didnt arrived before the end of 1944 on the front and still had only an accuracy of maybe 30% on 600m (aprox), they could "theoreticaly" penetrate the front of the Tiger II turret but the shatter gab would not allow that which as the high speed and small mass of the shell would simply cause the shell to shatter on the enemy armor instead of penetrating it (which was an issue with many allied guns including the 76mm HVAP on the armor of the Tiger 1). The gun of the IS2 seems to be ridiculous overpowered as well though while beeing weak in other situations (had to many cases where the IS2 was doing no damage to the side of heavy armor ...). It is as well a question what kind of damage one can expect to the turret for example as late versions of the Tiger I got 200mm protection for the turret. Last time I also had a situation where on point blank range the KV85 took 3 shoots of the Stug from the front ! Needless to say that such situations when you KNOW it should penetrate leave you somewhat with frustration. And I will not even go in to the details of armor quality which was well usualy very poor for the Soviets (compared to early and mid war designs of German armor).

But as said I am not asking for 100% realism either (that would leave most of the allied tanks in a very unfair situation since realisticaly not even the 90mm would have much success against the Panther). But a bit more authenticity regarding combat would be nice. Like No tank taking side shoots by powerfull guns that easily anymore. Actualy that is almost all I am asking for ... even powerfull tanks like the Tiger II, IS3 or IS2 and Pershing should be very vulnerable to medium guns from the side. What one can see though is that people use the Puma for example, to drive close to the IS3 and shoot its side ... sometimes with success even ... how is that in any way "authentic" ? Would it not be better to sneak eventualy (if possible) with good guns to the side of the enemy and score a hit and not make it simply a game out of "luck" ? Even the Tiger I should have a very good chance to penetrate the side armor of the IS3 on distance ...

[KnightFandragon]

Lolz id like tem to take a Advanced Squadleader Armor To-Kill sheet and base their numbers roughly off those. Thats what I use for my guns. If they did use that, you would quickly see that the Puma CANT kill an IS3 from any angle. To kill is 11, armor of the IS is 26 on the front hull and turret, back is 11 Hull, 13 turret. The TK on the 50L is only 11......and to get a kill you need to roll and have your to-kill # and die roll = 2 or lower then the armor factor.....so youd need a 8 or lower to kill it....wont happen. The Puma would have fun killing even a Sherman on its front hull and only has like 50% on its front turret which is like a 6. The Tiger I would smoke anything lower then a Is2. The T34 has armor factor of 11, I guess ASL aded in its slope for the armor factor and if a tiger hits it, you need a 9 or less to kill it on 2 6 sided die. To kill of the Tiger is 20....it cant possibly NOT kill what it shoots half the time. The Panther and King Tiger.....I dont care what you have out there...Panthers and King Tigers shoot it, its dead, dont even have to roll dice really. As for the 17OQF...its as good as the Panther gun.....Im sure the panther gun was better but as for the Allieds its thier best AT gun. And as for Side shots on the Tiger, King Tiger....The Russian 85, US 76L, Panzer IV 75L only has 50% chance to penetrate. Of course this is all based off ASL T/K chart which my dad says is based off realistic numbers and stuff. It makes sense that it coulda been. I try to base all my modded guns off those chart and so far it works for me. In my weird mod the Sherman dies.....just like it should. T34....crumples like a coke can under my tanks tracks when it gets hit by my King KItty =D muwhahahha