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#51
07-23-2010, 10:33 AM
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July 23, 1929: Fascist Italy bans the use of foreign words.
July 23, 1936: The Spanish PSUC is formed in Catalonia, Spain against the Fascist Franco forces. July 23, 1942: Operation Edelweiss begins, in an assault towards the oilfields of Baku, which gradually leads in the coming months to the Battle of Stalingrad, where we all know was the true turning point of the War in Europe. July 23, 1945: Legal prosecution against Vichy French leader Philippe Petain (French WW1 General at the Battle of Verdun in 1916 and early 1917.) begins. July 23, 1982: Soviet Ace (ME!) is born at USC Medical Center in Los Angeles California. Later to become the most well known person on here for everything Soviet. And yes it is late here. BUT! It's my day. 
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#52
07-23-2010, 11:32 AM
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#53
07-23-2010, 11:33 AM
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And most of us Brits would contend your Stalingrad point as 'the turning point' of the war in Europe!!! Last edited by Gilly; 07-23-2010 at 11:58 AM.
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#54
07-23-2010, 12:09 PM
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 Lilya's showing them up though in the Yak-1B of course.  As for the turning point. The BoB just halted Hitler's advance, but I'm not sure could be considered the turning point of the war. Mainly because since '41 the Russians had been fighting Hitler in Europe on the ground (not in North Africa where the British, Free French, and Americans were fighting him.) And then when Stalingrad happened, it was kinda like BoB for the ground war in Europe. But it was really the turning point in Europe because from late '42-early '43 onwards, The USSR had been pushing Hitler slowly but surely back to Germany. While the Western Allies were still poking around in Italy and just bombing Germany, rather than actually invading... which obviously D-Day was in '44. But by June '44 on the Eastern Front, the USSR had already taken all of Russia back, part of Belorussia and had successfully taken Romania, Hungary, and half of Poland. Plus, Stalingrad showed that the German Army could be knocked down from their high Blitzkrieg Pedestal, and turned back to where they came from. BoB was just a stalling action sorry to say, because there is no doubt in my mind that if Hitler had successfully knocked out the RAF, and tried for an invasion, the Channel at the time and you Navy would have knocked him out, and he never would have succeeded in '40 of taking Britain. And if he'd been so daring as to invade via paratroopers in Ju-52s, I'm sure AA would have gotten them, or just the Army standing there taking pot shots like the Germans were during Operation Market Garden.
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#55
07-23-2010, 12:44 PM
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As you rightly say Stalingrad was a turning point with regard to the halt of hitler into Russia but that also justifies the point I was making in that we didn't get invaded. We prevented an invasion, hence me contending the point. I agree that it was a significant turning point as far as the war in the east goes but will argue that we had such a point in the late summer of 40' by not being overun by mr hitler!
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#56
07-23-2010, 12:52 PM
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I'm going to be boring and say you're both right.. BoB was the first time someone stopped the Germans from doing what they wanted and had a profound effect on the Luftwaffes confidence. It was definately a turning point in the Air war. Stalingrad was the same thing but for the German army (obviously on a whole different scale). Huge turning point.
The german invasion plans had them using Paratroopers landing only near Brighton and Dover. They Had 12 Divisions penciled in to land amphibiously at 7 locations on the English south coast, Lyme Regis, Ventnor, Brighton, Bexhill, Folkstone, Dover and Ramsgate. the 2 main preconditions they needed were Air superiority and the closing of the channel by mining. The Italians were supposed to have a go at the Royal Navy in the North Sea and the Med.
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#57
07-23-2010, 01:00 PM
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#58
07-23-2010, 01:22 PM
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Yep we were doing it a good year before Russia even became involved!!!
And it was stopped, full stop! and not as you say delayed. We were never invaded- even against superior numbers! And I mean that tongue in cheek as I appreciate the blood bath that was Stalingrad in terms of life lost. Last edited by Gilly; 07-23-2010 at 01:25 PM.
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#59
07-23-2010, 03:16 PM
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And you did delay him, because if he'd beaten you guys in the first place, he could have gotten on with his invasion plans sooner against Russia, so he could get to the oilfields of Baku. (That's the real reason Hitler wanted Russia, was because of it's oil field. Which nowadays are ironically all dried up in the Baku fields. And Britain doesn't have much natural resources that Hitler wanted anyway. The Rhineland had plenty of coal for him.) Anyway, BoB was a turning point like Winny said, in the sense of the Luftwaffe being set back, but it didn't hinder them as much as you'd think. BoB might have scratched Germany on the face a bit, but didn't wound them seriously like Stalingrad did, where a whole Army was wiped out and a second one limping away like a wounded person shot in the leg. But it wasn't a major turning point in the war against Berlin like Stalingrad onwards was in the East. The real turning point, the turning point that really put a damper on Hitlers plans on the Western Front, was D-Day all the way in '44. Because from '42-early '44, all England and America had been doing against Germany was bombing it from the air (which, obviously did help the war,) but BoB was more of a stalemate delay than really anything. Because like I said, after Stalingrad, Germany started moving back to Berlin. On the Western Front, they were just toying around in Northern Italy and having bombing raids on their factories, etc.
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