SoW:BoB DB601 Pitch / MG-FFl

[rakinroll]

Thanks for these docs Franky.

[zapatista]

interesting information, since this would mean the whole period of BoB the germans should have the earlier 109 models that require the "3 handed" approach

there is usually some knowledgeable folks (and a few OC ones to ) hanging around the main forums who would have some more definitive information on this "production series" issue and the variants provided to each group (from reliable historical sources) during that specific BoB time period.

if the posted information is correct, it would be important for this aircraft variant to be the main (? only) 109 version provided for the german side during BoB

[Matt255]

T: Technical aircraft features
* Manual and auto prop pitch Bf109 variants will be featured

Source:
http://www.freewebs.com/heinkill/stormofwarnews.htm

Not sure if this is still up to date.

Anyway, i think some late E-4's had an automatic-pitch (those that still flew when the F reached the front), but no E-3. However, so far i haven't seen a E-4 (or later variant then the E-3) in any of the screenshots yet.

I fly with manual prop-pitch in IL-2. I highly recommend trying that out. It needs some time getting used to, but after a while, it's basically like shifting gears in a car. You do it automatically without thinking about it.

[JG53Frankyboy]

actually its not possible to destinguish an E-4 from an E-3 just looking at it!
the only difference was that the E-4 had MG-FF/M that were able to fire mineshells.
btw, if Maddox decides to make an E-3 as THE 109 in SoW:BoB it would be a mistake because the two main variants during this time were the E-1 (non 20mm canons) and the E-4! almost all so far produced E-3 were rearmed to be E-4s

[Matt255]

Afaik, all E-4 planes had the new canopy. I know that some E-3 have been retrofitted with that canopy (and FF/M etc.), but not the other way around (E-4 with old style canopys). And the 109's on the screenshots are definately E-3's (old canopy + 20mm cannons, that rules E-1 and E-4 out).

And Oleg stated already, that there will not be a E-1 variant.

[csThor]

Nope, the canopy was not a way to tell E-1 from E-3 from E-4. As it was some E-1s and E-3s were retrofitted with the later canopy while other aircraft which became E-4s when they got the MG FF/M in the wings retained the old canopy. The Emil is unique in the german designation system for it was the only 109 that defined sub-types via the wing armament.

[Matt255]

My bad then.

I've never seen a photo of a 109 E with the early canopy variant that has been discribed a E-4. I've also never read about the E-series designation being based on armament alone.

But it's tough to find sources for this. Any good sites or books about the E that you can recommend?

I do understand this correctly though, they took a E-3, replaced the MG FF with MG FF/M and voila, there you have the E-4?

[FAE_Cazador]

Sorry, but I would like to have some points clarified or summarized from this interesting thread (thanks to Blackdog for the nice explanation). I talk about present IL-2 stock planes, unmodded . Maybe someone can kindly confirm my thoughts:

1.- Now in IL-2, we can fly Bf-109/Fw-190 in "AUTO" mode. Then you can forget your prop pitch as you just select your throttle and the "Kontrol Gerät" take care of changing the pitch accordingly. It optimizes your RPM to the optimal value and also avoids to overrev your engine. So it is not a pure "Constant Propeller" as you do not really set a specific RPM value but a throttle position (which in fact sets a manifold pressure in Ata). Am I right? . Same behaviour applies to Spits/Mustangs.

2.-If you fly the same Bf-109/Fw-90 in "MANUAL" mode, you can do the same, but manually, continuously visually monitoring RPM value and changing accordingly the prop pitch by hand. But in this case the optimal RPM value to reach is unknown for us, common virtual pilots. Probably a real pilot will know this value from their training season or books. IMHO, a good value could be setup about 3000 RPM. Is it OK?

3.- It is supposed that you don't get any advantage now by flying in "Manual", instead of in "Auto". However, years ago people complained on line about cheating by flying Bf/Fw planes in Manual, getting more power than expected specially when climbing. This was supposedly fixed in a IL-2 patch. Is it OK?

4.- Russian planes fly like Fw/Bf in Manual mode but, curiously, in german planes you can easily break your engine if you don't take care of your RPM, while in Yak/La/Migs you can't. You can fly Yaks at 100% throttle, forgetting pitch, even when diving or climbing (overheat is a different issue). Maybe you can lose performance in your engine, but you don't really feel it too much, and of course you never break it out as quickly as flying Bf/Fw. Is this a bug of IL-2 or it was really so in real life?

5.- Finally, then in IL-2 we do not have pure "Constant Propeller" planes but planes with "Variable Pitch Propeller" . And of course, some older "Fixed Pitch" wooden propeller planes. Am I right?

Sorry for my English level, I hope you got my point.

BR

[AKA_Tenn]

In IL2, if you have your automatic prop pitch enabled, then it will automatically keep your engines RPM's at, or lower than their constant speed value, if you disable automatic prop pitch, all it does is make the prop pitch control up to you, so if your not constantly changing your prop pitch as you accelerate/decelerate to keep it in your engines power band than you'll either fry your engine or not get full power out of it, its that simple.

as for planes with variable prop pitch that you can't adjust, either you couldn't in the real plane, or they just never bothered to put it into il2

[JG53Frankyboy]

Originally Posted by FAE_Cazador

Sorry, but I would like to have some points clarified or summarized from this interesting thread (thanks to Blackdog for the nice explanation). I talk about present IL-2 stock planes, unmodded . Maybe someone can kindly confirm my thoughts:

1.- Now in IL-2, we can fly Bf-109/Fw-190 in "AUTO" mode. Then you can forget your prop pitch as you just select your throttle and the "Kontrol Gerät" take care of changing the pitch accordingly. It optimizes your RPM to the optimal value and also avoids to overrev your engine. So it is not a pure "Constant Propeller" as you do not really set a specific RPM value but a throttle position (which in fact sets a manifold pressure in Ata). Am I right? . Same behaviour applies to Spits/Mustangs.

2.-If you fly the same Bf-109/Fw-90 in "MANUAL" mode, you can do the same, but manually, continuously visually monitoring RPM value and changing accordingly the prop pitch by hand. But in this case the optimal RPM value to reach is unknown for us, common virtual pilots. Probably a real pilot will know this value from their training season or books. IMHO, a good value could be setup about 3000 RPM. Is it OK?

3.- It is supposed that you don't get any advantage now by flying in "Manual", instead of in "Auto". However, years ago people complained on line about cheating by flying Bf/Fw planes in Manual, getting more power than expected specially when climbing. This was supposedly fixed in a IL-2 patch. Is it OK?

4.- Russian planes fly like Fw/Bf in Manual mode but, curiously, in german planes you can easily break your engine if you don't take care of your RPM, while in Yak/La/Migs you can't. You can fly Yaks at 100% throttle, forgetting pitch, even when diving or climbing (overheat is a different issue). Maybe you can lose performance in your engine, but you don't really feel it too much, and of course you never break it out as quickly as flying Bf/Fw. Is this a bug of IL-2 or it was really so in real life?

5.- Finally, then in IL-2 we do not have pure "Constant Propeller" planes but planes with "Variable Pitch Propeller" . And of course, some older "Fixed Pitch" wooden propeller planes. Am I right?

Sorry for my English level, I hope you got my point.

BR

i wrote this some time ago:


for all piston engined planes except:
Ki-27
J8A
I-16 Typ 5&6
Fokker XXI
TB-3s
Fw190 in auto mode
Ta152H in auto mode
Spitfire IX and VIII in auto mode
Bf109, Bf110,Do335,Ta152C in manual and auto mode:
the prop pitch in game is controlling the engine revolutions - so 100% pitch here means you allow the egnine to run at max rpm if enough throttle/power is available.
in combat you shoud fly always with 100%.
to lower your pitch is actually only necesarry if you want realy fly slow (that your comrades or the AI can close formation or you want safe fuel) , than you have to reduce the pitch like the throttle. same % rate or pitch 10% more than the throttle % is a good solution.

also using full throttle and useing only 90-95% pitch can reduce the overheat chance - usefull in some planes like the Tempest or the Corsair and Hellcat. that doesnt harm your speed/climb much, if at all !

very few planes in game are overrev in a power dive (full power, 100% pitch) - IIRC that are the Cr.42, G.50, Mc.200, Fw190A/F in manual mode, Fw190D/Ta152H in manual mode, the Brewsters(not sure about that , may have changed in a patch)


Fw190 in auto mode
Spitfire IX and VIII in auto mode
Bf109, Bf110,Do335,Ta152C in auto mode:
have a one lever system, if you control the throttle, the pitch is automaticly also controled


Bf109, Bf110,Do335,Ta152C in manual mode:
thats totaly different, here you control the propeller blade angle direclty ! no automatic will keep the rpm in a "good" condition. it brings you no benefit to use this manual settings anymore (there was a time ). so, dont bother it

the
Ki-27
J8A
TB-3s
I-16 Typ 5&6
Fokker XXI:
have fixed propellers, so nothing to control there