Friday 2010-04-09 Discussion Thread

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Zorin

Well sorry, but that bump map is ridiculous. Germans actually knew what flush riveting meant and any odd real picture of a Dornier 17 or 215 will show you that.

oleg's rivets look perfectly fine

just look on the right hand side of the 1e picture you posted yourself, and you will observe the rivets in some sections of the plane really stand out. the parts of the plane where you cant see the rivets as obvious has mostly to do with the angle that section of the wing/fuselage is looked at (AND the fact you posted a scanned picture of a very low resolution aged photograph )

if you then look closely at oleg's plane, you will see the rivets in some part of the aircraft really seem to stand out, and in others they are almost invisible, it all has to do with the angle you look at the surfaces, how close you are, and the lighting (and image resolution of course)

i suspect are you one of those people who believes that 100 yrs ago the people in the early cinema reels actually walked in that funny accelerated matter in real life as well all the time

[zapatista]

on a more cheerful note, is anybody here keeping an eye on the russian forums that oleg posts updates in ? there might be some other pics/vids we havnt seen there

/says i hopefully

[jannaspookie]

Originally Posted by zapatista

oleg's rivets look perfectly fine you rude little twit

i suspect are you one of those people who believes that 100 yrs ago the people in the early cinema reels actually walked in that funny accelerated matter in real life as well all the time

Wow. I'm surprised such flagrant disrespect is allowed in these forums. It's one thing to disagree with his statement, but to personally attack someone is entirely different. Besides, if you knew anything about Zorin, you'd know that he is fairly knowledgeable about WWII aircraft, and especially German ones.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by jannaspookie

Wow. I'm surprised such flagrant disrespect is allowed in these forums. It's one thing to disagree with his statement, but to personally attack someone is entirely different. Besides, if you knew anything about Zorin, you'd know that he is fairly knowledgeable about WWII aircraft, and especially German ones.

i replied in kind to the tone of his post, did you find that hard to spot ?

[MikkOwl]

If those small AP bullets do what anti tank penetrators do, then if striking at an angle, they either deflect and deform (denting the surface possibly), or they penetrate, with the projectile bending/turning into the surface. Even if it bends inwards, I'm sure the hole is not completely round, nor oval. Probably slightly heart-shaped (but rounded on the upper edge). Either way, it is insignificant. Round is pretty close for most situations. The rivet issue is more important. Even if ENEMY planes may be far away, friendly planes may fly very close, close enough to see. More so, seeing one's own plane from the cockpit (especially noticeable in twin engined or more). That's close enough to notice.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Sometimes the smallest details are probably the most important.

Maybe my issue with the .303 bullet holes was that the even though the rivets have a shape and look natural (to someone who doesn't know one end of a Do-17 to the other) the bullet holes are flat and look out of place with the rest of the detail.

I wonder if they could alter the displacement mapping (bump mapping or what ever they call it) of the aircraft's skin to reflect the damage. It would mean that each aircraft woulds need its own map, but ones the damage is incorporated to it, it would take no extra resources to display the detail.

Cheers!

cor, I forgot how every forum always has some very sad people which all they can do is offend each other instead of contributing politely and constructively..

Anyway, to support the irregular bullet hole theory:



it's interesting to note though how from the shooter's perspective those holes will appear pretty much rounded (check attached image)

I want to hope that, being a beta, there's going to be an overall improvement of texture quality, all in all those bullet holes are just textures, so I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to address. I would focus more on the "u get a hole where you actually get hit" feature!

SJ

uh and btw I agree with Zorin about the rivet bump mapping being a bit overdone, it looks like like some bad 1/72nd old Airfix model kit

[Romanator21]

Relax everyone. First there were complaints that there were no rivets visible, and now the complaints are that there are too many. Luthier showed us that angle specifically to highlight the rivet mapping. It doesn't appear like that all the time as shown in the video when they were hardly visible.

I think it was mentioned that bump mapping is editable like the skin is in Il-2. The effect can be tuned to your liking.

And finally, let's consider the beautiful Bf-110. I think it's safe to say that player controlled aircraft will be up to that standard, while more detail will be added to the AI planes as they become pilot-able. The Do-17 is NOT going to be player controlled on release, so exactly mapping the skin is not as much a priority as sorting out the Ju-88's or He-111's.

As for bullet holes, Oleg specifically said that initially SOW would NOT take into account bullet angle when rendering bullet holes. This is again, to save resources. I don't think the vast majority of our PCs will render ANY bullet holes at all due to the immense load of things already being processed and rendered. The engine will probably handle these things in due time thanks to the third parties, but will our PCs?.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Relax?

I thought the specific purpose of this thread was to comment of statements that Oleg didn't make and comment on images that Oleg didn't post in this context? How can we relax when we are given an opportunity like this?

If we're going to make irrelevant, nit-picking comments that are going to annoy and offend people, at least we can be assured that Oleg won't be reading them here (It would be extremely irresponsible for him to read or comment in this thread.)

Cheers!

PS - Please remember that this thread is a W.I.P and may contain comments that will not be in the official update thread!