Do level 5 units rule this game?

[Elias_Maluco]

On my last game, I will usually have at least 2 level 5 units. They are usually great even if is just for the fact that few spells can cripple or neutralize then (none, for black dragons) and because they can take heavy counter-attacks without dying. But most have great skills that make they worth using.

Dragons are always awesome. All three types, but specially black.

Cyclops are very good too: high defense, good damage, great for ranged, awesome in meele.

I loved playing with Trolls on my last game: good defense, high damage, kinda cheap, at night they will auto-heal. Great tanks.

Tirex are awesome: high damage, great speed, eating bodies to heal and gain action points is an incredible skill. Great tanks too.

Also love Ancient Ents: their ranged attack does brutal damage, and they can take a lot of punch too. Haste then and they become very effective.

[Zechnophobe]

I think yes, Level 5's are the king of the game, especially dragons. This is less true with a warrior, who has less ways to keep them alive, but even still, you will be hard pressed to fight the urge to bring out the bigguns.

The big difference to me is that you have to worry about ressurrection on your little guys. Look at DG's favorite army list, two Rezzer stacks. Compared to my favorite: (All dragons + Archdemons) you just beat people down and don't ask questions.

[loreangelicus]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

I think yes, Level 5's are the king of the game, especially dragons. This is less true with a warrior, who has less ways to keep them alive, but even still, you will be hard pressed to fight the urge to bring out the bigguns.

The big difference to me is that you have to worry about ressurrection on your little guys. Look at DG's favorite army list, two Rezzer stacks. Compared to my favorite: (All dragons + Archdemons) you just beat people down and don't ask questions.

Level 5 units are powerful, without a doubt; like I mentioned in other posts, they learned from their mistake in KBTL and gave level 5 units better stats per leadership, especially dragons.

For a warrior who has more leadership though, I think the droid-undead build is better. I'm running an impossible warrior game right now, currently at Montero, and am having a very easy time getting no-loss against enemies (see screenshot of current build). And I have yet to get the items that reduce leadership costs of these two types: 2 items for undead to reduce leadership by 35% and 3 items for droids that reduce leadership by 45%.

But you are correct, level 5 are great overall. In fact, the last slot in my 5-unit lineup is reserved for undead bone dragons (+3 morale from voice of the dragon and black knights).

[TemjinGold]

By the way, did they ever fix the droid morale problem? Since you have so many stacks of them...

[loreangelicus]

Originally Posted by TemjinGold

By the way, did they ever fix the droid morale problem? Since you have so many stacks of them...

I was not aware there was a droid morale problem; did a quick search, couldn't find a post regarding it, could you enlighten me on it?

As far as I know droids always stay neutral (as per description of the Mechanical trait) no matter what item/ability/spell/effect says otherwise.

[DGDobrev]

The idea is that if you swap the droids with another unit on the same spot in the army, it gets a faulty neutral morale even if you have any means to improve it (skils, items, etc.).

[TemjinGold]

Originally Posted by loreangelicus

I was not aware there was a droid morale problem; did a quick search, couldn't find a post regarding it, could you enlighten me on it?

As far as I know droids always stay neutral (as per description of the Mechanical trait) no matter what item/ability/spell/effect says otherwise.

Basically if you have droids in say the first slot on the left at some point, then that slot is permanently stuck at neutral morale no matter what units you put there later. So if you had droids at all 5 slots in your army before, then you will never see any morale benefits for the rest of the game.

[loreangelicus]

Originally Posted by TemjinGold

Basically if you have droids in say the first slot on the left at some point, then that slot is permanently stuck at neutral morale no matter what units you put there later. So if you had droids at all 5 slots in your army before, then you will never see any morale benefits for the rest of the game.

Attached is a screenshot of Undead Spiders I generated using Call of Death; they get a +1 positive morale due to the Black Knights in the army. They are occupying the 4th slot which is where I always place half of my Repair Droid stack.

The +1 morale seems to be registering fine. I even entered a battle, to check if I lose the morale bonus there, but it's still there. I even swapped the Undead Spiders around to the other slots, to see if it loses the bonus during the swap, but it was still there.

Could you give me a specific set of steps on how this bug manifests in your game? I'll try to recreate it in mine. If it is non-existent in my copy, then I'll start promoting the digital download purchase from Gamer's Gate.

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

Heh, looks like you made out like a bandit with items there. I see 30% physical resistance in your inventory, and 20 bonus runes in your equiped items (banner, sword) And you apparantly got that skull of death a loong time ago. I think that the warrior does need a little more rezz help since he can't really get the magic as fast and as copiously. If you go with dragons you WILL need timeback and/or life light at some point.

Hand of Necropolis x2 at Verona, Skull of Pain and Slippery Cuirass at Rusty, Twinkling Boots at Bolo; and a guaranteed Call Colossus duplicate navi map at Scarlet to boot. I was just going for guaranteed Ancient Knowledge scrolls (x3 in shops per KBScanner), just got (extremely) lucky with the rest.

This is a level 60 attempt, thus the use of the Dragon Slayer's Sword / Magician's Cape / Jackboots for extra XP via multiple suppressions; no real need for resistance gear (for now) as my army is very easy to resurrect. I can't wait to dump the banner; I still have 15 battles left before I get the mind runes, then I'll swap the Engineer's Badge for more droids.

You are correct, warrior is in bad shape mana-wise. That's one of the reasons why I chose this lineup; droids have a built-in, reloading resurrect ability, and most of the time I only need to cast Eviln level 1 (15 mana) once per battle to bring back lost Black Knights. Turn Back Time costs too much mana, thus no level 5 units for my warrior. Good thing Eviln also works for the level 5 undead Bone Dragons, so I'll add them to the lineup eventually (via Call of Death). I'm just waiting for my Sacrifice level 3 to generate 790 HP of unit-generating power, so I could Sacrifice my droids to top up the Bone Dragons stack every time I have enough leadership for more.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by loreangelicus

Level 5 units are powerful, without a doubt; like I mentioned in other posts, they learned from their mistake in KBTL and gave level 5 units better stats per leadership, especially dragons.

For a warrior who has more leadership though, I think the droid-undead build is better. I'm running an impossible warrior game right now, currently at Montero, and am having a very easy time getting no-loss against enemies (see screenshot of current build). And I have yet to get the items that reduce leadership costs of these two types: 2 items for undead to reduce leadership by 35% and 3 items for droids that reduce leadership by 45%.

But you are correct, level 5 are great overall. In fact, the last slot in my 5-unit lineup is reserved for undead bone dragons (+3 morale from voice of the dragon and black knights).

Heh, looks like you made out like a bandit with items there. I see 30% physical resistance in your inventory, and 20 bonus runes in your equiped items (banner, sword) And you apparantly got that skull of death a loong time ago. I think that the warrior does need a little more rezz help since he can't really get the magic as fast and as copiously. If you go with dragons you WILL need timeback and/or life light at some point.

[N3MES1S]

Originally Posted by Elias_Maluco

On my last game, I will usually have at least 2 level 5 units. They are usually great even if is just for the fact that few spells can cripple or neutralize then (none, for black dragons) and because they can take heavy counter-attacks without dying. But most have great skills that make they worth using.

Dragons are always awesome. All three types, but specially black.

Cyclops are very good too: high defense, good damage, great for ranged, awesome in meele.

I loved playing with Trolls on my last game: good defense, high damage, kinda cheap, at night they will auto-heal. Great tanks.

Tirex are awesome: high damage, great speed, eating bodies to heal and gain action points is an incredible skill. Great tanks too.

Also love Ancient Ents: their ranged attack does brutal damage, and they can take a lot of punch too. Haste then and they become very effective.

Red dragons use to be more useful that black ones. On high leadership levels, u should use red dragons instead red ones, but depends on wat game do u want.

I agree about cyclops

Tirex are just good, but dont know y, i dont like em. I think the other level 5 units (except ancient ents) are more useful than trex.

Ancient Ents are just useless. U can like em, but i think is the worst level 5 creature of the game. Their range special attack is just good, but u need to recharge it for 2 turns and the slow speed of ancient ents make em too vulnerable. And u basically cant do nothing while u dont have the range special atk lol. U need to cast haste everyturn on em to make effective, and thats a waste. Normal ents are far better. Maybe im wront but i used ancient ents and after 5 matches i just discarded em. Same spot about giants.

Trolls are awesome units. They heal completely on evening/night, good dmg and have a good speed (for a tank level 5). If u cast stone skin/divine armour on trolls on a night fight, u can move em to the center of the battle and watch a movie.

Paladins/Knights are always the most resourceful units. Knights are the best units against dragons.

Ogres are awesome units too. His special rage attack can double his dmg on a single hit. I just killed 9 black dragons on 1 hit with 30 ogres xD. I think it was a critical hit, but cant be sure.