What is better in a 1 unit army - 1 red or black dragon

[Zechnophobe]

Black dragons, barring a slightly higher attack, only do 5% more damage per dragon than reds, but reds cost 500 less leadership, so you'll have 25% more reds than blacks. That's the reason they do more damage. BLack dragons have 130 more hit points, and higher defense. They also have more resistance to magic and physical. So for a single unit, the black dragon is a good deal stronger.

The main difference in survivability comes from the black dragon being unable to be healed or rezz'd. You can stone skin a red dragon to give it a lot more physical resistance, you can't with a black dragon. You can fully heal the red with level 3 heal.. you can't with a black dragon.

Anyhow, I just want to set the record straight on this.

[DGDobrev]

Well, I'm thinking about a playthrough in which the Reds may prove better than the blacks for a 1-unit army. I've been looking at the Judgment day paladin and with the astral resist introduced in the gift bag, I'm thinking Red Dragons + Armageddon + heal/turn back time. The idea is: Armageddon will hurt them a bit, but at least they won't suffer from the burning post-effect.

As for a backup, I'll see. BlackKnights are the safe choice, but I'm thinking Paladins due to the medal that boosts the Paladins/Inquis/Priests damage. We'll see. Now the only thing I need is a good game with good item setup.

[KongMysen]

I've been playing a no-loss impossible mage with a single stack of either black or Red dragons.
they are both equally useful, but to different extends.

In all but one item upgrade I used the Blacks and allowed my Demon Portals to do all the dirty work...
In the mask of hate upgrade, I switched to reds due to 20 Arch demons constantly halving stack on round 1.
Excorsism lvl 2 and Demon portal on round 1, Excorsicm lvl 2 and Time Back on round 2. On round 3 the Arch Demons couldn't halve any longer. Obviosly this wouldn't work on Black Dragons, but in every other upgrade, they were superior to the Red Dragon.

In some hero fights vs a high intellect Geyser caster I chose Blacks and used either damaging spells or Demon Portals to win IF and only IF it was an army with mostly melees. In a fight vs lots of ranged units, a buffed Red Dragon would turn out to be better. Its just a pain in these battles because you need to constantly keep your Dragon buffed and at full hp to survive the Geysers.
With a BD it's much, much easier since you can use your spells to destroy and kill instead of protecting... Only works in some battles though.

My 2 cents on the overall usage of the dragons, my vote goes to the Red.

However in a single stack fight they are equally usefull.... ... imho of course

[N3MES1S]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

Black dragons, barring a slightly higher attack, only do 5% more damage per dragon than reds, but reds cost 500 less leadership, so you'll have 25% more reds than blacks. That's the reason they do more damage. BLack dragons have 130 more hit points, and higher defense. They also have more resistance to magic and physical. So for a single unit, the black dragon is a good deal stronger.

The main difference in survivability comes from the black dragon being unable to be healed or rezz'd. You can stone skin a red dragon to give it a lot more physical resistance, you can't with a black dragon. You can fully heal the red with level 3 heal.. you can't with a black dragon.

Anyhow, I just want to set the record straight on this.

The thing is, maybe black dragons are better for 1 unit troop (but i tested on the battlefield and i cant kill a red dragon with a black one, he dies first..even when black has more def and more hit points...) , but on mid-high levels is a waste to use black dragons. They cost too much ls, and red dragons are more useful. The Black Dragons special hability is almost useless all the time when i fight with black dragons. And u dont need to cast heal and stone skin everytime on red dragons, they die almost like black dragons. On a strong geyser user (level 3) it doesnt matter if u have red or black, they die anyways lol. And for example, black dragons are horribly against baal. Red Dragons are much better choice if someone is going to use BD/RD for fight baal...

[DGDobrev]

"On a strong geyser user (level 3) it doesnt matter if u have red or black, they die anyways lol."

That assumption is completely incorrect. The Reds may die, but the Blacks are immune to magic, so the geyser won't hurt them at all. I have seen heroes casting geyser vs. single black dragon stack, but in the end, it's a wasted amount of mana because nothing changes on the battlefield.

Against Baal, both Red and Black Dragons are a really poor choice. Why would one want to use a fire-based attack creatures versus something that is 80% fire resistant? Or even against something that's 50% resistant (like most of the demons Baal summons)? If one does, it clearly shows a significant lack of tactical thinking on their part. Even peasants will be better than red/black dragons for this battle, as both of them will eventually die, but at least the peasants will inflict some damage due to their numbers and physical-based attack

[Zechnophobe]

How exactly did you have a red and black dragon, one of each, fight each other Nemesis? One HAD to be under your control, and one not. The one under your control has all your attack and defense boosts (And maybe resistances.. guardian angel? Leather dress?) The one under your control should be an easy winner, even if you never touch your spellbook or dragon.

Also, You shouldn't be losing any red or black dragons, unless you are being careless with them.

[N3MES1S]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

How exactly did you have a red and black dragon, one of each, fight each other Nemesis? One HAD to be under your control, and one not. The one under your control has all your attack and defense boosts (And maybe resistances.. guardian angel? Leather dress?) The one under your control should be an easy winner, even if you never touch your spellbook or dragon.

Also, You shouldn't be losing any red or black dragons, unless you are being careless with them.

Just playing different games with 2 save games on sheterra (ultrax). I only used black dragons to test wat im talking about (i really prefer red dragons, they are really more useful). In the "real life" i only used red dragons (and actually i never lose any red dragon to a geyser hero). I cant remember if a geyser hits a black dragon (dont know if BDs are mind spells inmune or just magic resistance but geyser is not a mind spell). Anyways, at the beginning (when u have low number unit stacks) , black dragons are better option, but in mid-later game, red dragons are much better. Against Baal, using dragons is almost stupid, i know but it really doesnt matter to me if i use black dragons or red dragons or just dont use em, cuz i always kill baal too easily (well i didnt try on impossible yet but i think im out for now of kb -.-). Usually, i have a second stack in reserve with emerald green dragons, royal griffins, assasins or something else and i use em with baal.

[KongMysen]

I just won a no-loss Mage game, and I've been playing single stack most of the game. I Kited a little and found the Shield of Rekross on Verona + a Call Colloseus scroll, which I used for trolls.

My Lineup was:

trolls first...
Then dual stack of Black and Reds
The the biggest part of the game with EITHER a black or a red dragon
At Shettera and Reha + bosses I had a single stack of Black Knights.

game ended with Black Knights as my champion with 45% dmg
Black and Red dragon each did 20%

rest was divided amongst Trolls+ Demon Portal troops.

My point is, I guess the dragons were equally usefull, since they ended up doing the same dmg. I switched troops to get the no-loss battles and I suppose the dragons have been used 50/50

[dashcunning]

Originally Posted by N3MES1S

but i tested on the battlefield and i cant kill a red dragon with a black one, he dies first..even when black has more def and more hit points...

You are either exceedingly unlucky, doing something wrong, or forgetting/omitting some vital information. All else being equal, a black's normal attack does ~30 to a red and a red's does ~18 to a black. A black's special does ~30 to a red and a red's does ~20 to a black. Both specials have the same recharge time and both can easily be used whenever available to attack the other. A black has 130 more health than a red. Your claim doesn't add up.

[TemjinGold]

Reds are superior to blacks except when your opponent has spells.