Bangladesh 1971 Air Combat Simulator request to Oleg

[AndyJWest]

From Wikipedia
Bangladesh Liberation War:

The Indian Air Force carried out several sorties against Pakistan, and within a week, IAF aircraft dominated the skies of East Pakistan. It achieved near-total air supremacy by the end of the first week as the entire Pakistani air contingent in the east, PAF No.14 Squadron, was grounded due to Indian airstrikes

A horrific conflict, but not of any great significance in terms of air warfare. Hardly a priority for air combat simulations I'd have thought.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Unecessary, if you ask me. And judging by the planeset, a "Strike Fighters 2: Wings Over Bangladesh" is more likely.

[Lonely Ringer]

I agree with Andy... sadly ... a whole week eh ? You cannot be serious..

[airmalik]

As someone that lived through that conflict, I'd love to see this but you have no idea what you'd be getting into Luft/spit whining would pale in comparison to the reaction you'd get from natives of both countries complaining about favoring one side or the other.

There's hardly an unbiased source of information about any of the conflicts between the two countries. Even wikipedia articles read like propaganda pieces.

The 1971 conflict would be interesting with the preemptive strikes by the PAF but more interesting would be the 1964 conflict which was fought on the west front and produced exciting events like the (disputed) 5 Hawker Hunter kills by a PAF pilot in under a minute:

Great reading even if it might partially be fictional

http://www.defencejournal.com/2001/september/alam.htm

Alam had lost sight of the other Hunters, but with ample fuel he was prepared to fly some distance to catch up with them. Soon after crossing the Chenab River, his wingman Akhtar called out, “Contact, Hunters one o’clock.” They were flying at 100-200 feet and around 480 knots. As Alam closed into gunfire range, the Hunters did a half-hearted defensive turn which did nothing to spoil his aim; rather, it set them up in line astern for easy shooting in a row. Alam fired at the last Hunter against the glow of the rising sun and saw fuel spew out of the drop tanks, which had taken hits from the Sabre’s six guns. In a hurry to score fast, Alam shifted his aim ahead onto the next aircraft and fired another short burst. The Hunters seemed to fly across Alam’s gunsight like a gaggle of geese, and he obliged repeatedly, four times in all.

This conflict, like the later 1971 one, was very short lived with epic tank and air battles. I think the shortness of the conflict might actually make for a good sim scenario. Both sides were limited by resources but more so the smaller country of Pakistan and a proper campaign engine with resource mgmt would make this quite interesting.

Some air combat stats (again, disputed) about the 1971 conflict:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_...a_Pakistan_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakista...a-Pakistan_War

During the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 the PAF was out-numbered 5:1 against the Indian Air Force and, initially, both sides claimed to have downed around 100 aircraft of the opposition during the 23 day war. The PAF fleet at the time consisted of 12 F-104 Starfighters, some 120 F-86 Sabres and around 20 B-57 Canberra bombers.[8] The Indian claim of 100 PAF aircraft downed was proven to be highly exaggerated when 86 F-86 Sabres, 10 F-104 Starfighters and 20 B-57 Canberra bombers were flown in a parade after the war.

The best reason, however, for a sim based on this conflict might be the opportunity to dogfight in the Himalayas! I don't think current technology would do that landscape justice though.

[airmalik]

Some pictures of Sabres and Hunters I took last year at Oshkosh:











More pics from Oshkosh 2009 including some awesome shots of polished Mustangs:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/malik/s...7623421425070/

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by airmalik

Some pictures of Sabres and Hunters I took last year at Oshkosh:

I don't know what those are, but they're not Hawker Hunters, this is a (dual control?) Hunter.



The noses may look somewhat similar, but the tails are different and the wings aren't swept. They could be some sort of conversion trainer version, but it's not a fighter variant.

Nice photos, no offence intended, it's just those don't look like typical Hunters to me.

[Qpassa]

I would prefer Spanish Civil War (1936-1939)

[airmalik]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

I don't know what those are, but they're not Hawker Hunters, this is a (dual control?) Hunter.

You're right. They're not Hawker Hunters as Lonely Ringer has also pointed out. I'm not familiar with Dragonflys in fact, until now I never associated Cessna with military aircraft.

cheers

[zakkandrachoff]

Originally Posted by airmalik

As someone that lived through that conflict, I'd love to see this but you have no idea what you'd be getting into Luft/spit whining would pale in comparison to the reaction you'd get from natives of both countries complaining about favoring one side or the other.

There's hardly an unbiased source of information about any of the conflicts between the two countries. Even wikipedia articles read like propaganda pieces.

The 1971 conflict would be interesting with the preemptive strikes by the PAF but more interesting would be the 1964 conflict which was fought on the west front and produced exciting events like the (disputed) 5 Hawker Hunter kills by a PAF pilot in under a minute:

Great reading even if it might partially be fictional

http://www.defencejournal.com/2001/september/alam.htm

Alam had lost sight of the other Hunters, but with ample fuel he was prepared to fly some distance to catch up with them. Soon after crossing the Chenab River, his wingman Akhtar called out, “Contact, Hunters one o’clock.” They were flying at 100-200 feet and around 480 knots. As Alam closed into gunfire range, the Hunters did a half-hearted defensive turn which did nothing to spoil his aim; rather, it set them up in line astern for easy shooting in a row. Alam fired at the last Hunter against the glow of the rising sun and saw fuel spew out of the drop tanks, which had taken hits from the Sabre’s six guns. In a hurry to score fast, Alam shifted his aim ahead onto the next aircraft and fired another short burst. The Hunters seemed to fly across Alam’s gunsight like a gaggle of geese, and he obliged repeatedly, four times in all.

This conflict, like the later 1971 one, was very short lived with epic tank and air battles. I think the shortness of the conflict might actually make for a good sim scenario. Both sides were limited by resources but more so the smaller country of Pakistan and a proper campaign engine with resource mgmt would make this quite interesting.

Some air combat stats (again, disputed) about the 1971 conflict:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_...a_Pakistan_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakista...a-Pakistan_War

During the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 the PAF was out-numbered 5:1 against the Indian Air Force and, initially, both sides claimed to have downed around 100 aircraft of the opposition during the 23 day war. The PAF fleet at the time consisted of 12 F-104 Starfighters, some 120 F-86 Sabres and around 20 B-57 Canberra bombers.[8] The Indian claim of 100 PAF aircraft downed was proven to be highly exaggerated when 86 F-86 Sabres, 10 F-104 Starfighters and 20 B-57 Canberra bombers were flown in a parade after the war.

The best reason, however, for a sim based on this conflict might be the opportunity to dogfight in the Himalayas! I don't think current technology would do that landscape justice though.

I know , 1965 war in the west or 1971 in the west too. I was saying Bangladesh to get all in only one small scenario without big city's like are India and Pakistan in the west Front. Bangladesh is not so big. For me, is the perfect for a Dogfight and big operations like I do in LOMAC. I not understand what Lonely Ringer said about that " is only 1 to 2 weeks only of combat". what about it!?. Storm Of War Battle of Britain only goanna takes 3months. I like more India Pakistan Air combat that Korean War in were North Korea only have Mig-15 and a ww2 fighter. And Allies have more than 10 jet planes whit radar, ground attack and more. Don't like. And I am tired of Israeli conflict. I think is a good chance to get a really good air combat whit medley could war jets. AAA, of course, nobody like the idea because this is orient conflict. No USAF, no RAF, no Luftwaffe, No Jewish, of course, of course. I don't care so much that, only equal air forces.
MIG-21 shooting down F-104


here is a link of air victories and losses.
http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/a.../airloses.html

If somebody know about another similar conflict, but similar, not Vietnam, please write about it.

[MikkOwl]

Originally Posted by airmalik

This conflict, like the later 1971 one, was very short lived with epic tank and air battles. I think the shortness of the conflict might actually make for a good sim scenario. Both sides were limited by resources but more so the smaller country of Pakistan and a proper campaign engine with resource mgmt would make this quite interesting.

I have never gotten my hands on a short conflict sim before, and you have a point there. Bad side might be that it would be 'too easy' if knowing where to go and what to do (i.e. some randomization inside a realistic envelope would make it the same conflict but impossible to read the future).

I suppose that the concept of fighting a battle (inside an operation) is the closest to it when speaking of the more vast wars.

The main thing speaking against this is that it is not well known in Europe and North America, and that none of those countries were combatants.

I love modern machinery but I hate self guiding missiles.