Released: Multi-Throttle Support for IL-2

[Azimech]

From the Readme:

"The tools in the JOYSTICK_IDENTIFIER folder let you scan each of the first four joystick ID slots (usually a joystick takes up slot 1, a throttle slot 2 and so on, but it can deviate)."

Does this mean more than 4 controllers are not supported? Or just not identified? Soon I will have 5 with more to come.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Azimech

Does this mean more than 4 controllers are not supported? Or just not identified? Soon I will have 5 with more to come.

I haven't tried it myself, but from what I hear, Il-2 supports a maximum of 4...just out of curiosity, what are all these controllers you are collecting?

[Azimech]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I haven't tried it myself, but from what I hear, Il-2 supports a maximum of 4...just out of curiosity, what are all these controllers you are collecting?

I have a Sidewinder FF2 for aileron and elevator,
Saitek throttle 1 for power, proppitch & flaps,
Saitek throttle 2 for aileron trim, rudder trim and brakes,
MS ForceFeedback Wheel for elevator trim (in the future it will be placed besides me, like the big wheels in real A/C) with centering power off.

And I'm building my own pedals using a timing belt and two camshaft sprockets & some old wood, with a Saitek steering wheel (USB) as a base, and which will have toe brakes and include a pedestal for placing the Sidewinder and a locking mechanism for my office chair using a big lever.
I wanted better resolution and most wheels use optics.

My previous pedals used the classic pivoting style, used a cable over a pulley which turned a potmeter from a gameport-joystick. Was nice and built them from scratch in a few hours with the stuff I had lying around (drawing, measuring? nah )

Although I like the idea of buying a brand new HOTAS, building stuff for a few euro's is even more fun.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Azimech

Although I like the idea of buying a brand new HOTAS, building stuff for a few euro's is even more fun.

Why don't you build a trim box, then? Get one of these, 3 multi-turn pots (I've heard 5 turn pots are good, apparently the 109 had about 5 turns on its trim wheel, for example), or even just some one-turn pots and some gears, and a little plastic project box. All you have to do then is drill some holes in the box, mount the pots on the sides, mount the BU0836 inside somewhere, then connect everything up - just a matter of connecting 3 wires for each potentiometer to the Bodnar board. You can even avoid that hassle by buying some of the three-pin connectors on the Bodnar site. Then you've just got to find some decent wheels to attach to the potentiometer shafts.
Doing that, you replace the second throttle and the elevator trim steering wheel with one controller straight away and into the bargain using rudder and aileron trim is now a lot more intuitive since you can place them on the box however you like (likely on the right for elevator trim, back for aileron trim and top for rudder trim). You also have spare space on the top for buttons and switches at a later date. There's a tutorial for connecting those up here.
You could even replace the other Saitek throttle as well if you wanted (the Bodnar board supports up to 8 axes, 32 buttons and a hat switch), but that would probably be slightly more difficult since building throttles from scratch is a bit harder than just drilling holes in a box and screwing potentiometers into the holes (the limit of my ability, at least )
The only thing you're missing that way is brakes, but once you complete your pedals you're all sorted. Just an idea. I've had this kind of stuff wandering through my head for the last few weeks since I noticed how easy it is to build simple controllers for yourself.

[335th_GRSwaty]

Check this,less than 30€,article is in Greek but you get the point:

http://www.hotas.gr/content/view/63/53/lang,en

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRSwaty

Check this,less than 30€

Wow, that's really awesome, Swaty. I like your website!

[335th_GRSwaty]

Thank you!
I hope its useful!

[Azimech]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

Why don't you build a trim box, then? Get one of these, 3 multi-turn pots (I've heard 5 turn pots are good, apparently the 109 had about 5 turns on its trim wheel, for example), or even just some one-turn pots and some gears, and a little plastic project box. All you have to do then is drill some holes in the box, mount the pots on the sides, mount the BU0836 inside somewhere, then connect everything up - just a matter of connecting 3 wires for each potentiometer to the Bodnar board. You can even avoid that hassle by buying some of the three-pin connectors on the Bodnar site. Then you've just got to find some decent wheels to attach to the potentiometer shafts.
Doing that, you replace the second throttle and the elevator trim steering wheel with one controller straight away and into the bargain using rudder and aileron trim is now a lot more intuitive since you can place them on the box however you like (likely on the right for elevator trim, back for aileron trim and top for rudder trim). You also have spare space on the top for buttons and switches at a later date. There's a tutorial for connecting those up here.
You could even replace the other Saitek throttle as well if you wanted (the Bodnar board supports up to 8 axes, 32 buttons and a hat switch), but that would probably be slightly more difficult since building throttles from scratch is a bit harder than just drilling holes in a box and screwing potentiometers into the holes (the limit of my ability, at least )
The only thing you're missing that way is brakes, but once you complete your pedals you're all sorted. Just an idea. I've had this kind of stuff wandering through my head for the last few weeks since I noticed how easy it is to build simple controllers for yourself.

Thanks for the info! I've been aware of the Bodnar interface for a while, mainly because I wanted to integrate a pc in my car and build a custom digital dash. I'll think about it for my flying gear, it's a cleaner solution and potentially looks better.

[MikkOwl]

I just found out that Team Daidalos are not just giving throttle support, but also individual prop pitch, fuel mix, and radiator to axis with 12 settings instead of just 5 through keyboard cycling we have now, and that they somehow got everything to actually work 'right' (not like now, where you only select one engine at a time, then it's settings are cloned to any new engine to select, making everything totally messed up beyond only using the throttles, prop pitch especially).

It is amazing news. These things are not possible to do without access to the source code, although I did pretty well with most of the functions I think. Problem is we have to wait until the end of march at the earliest. In these circles, I keep my head cool and accept that delays are a part of life.

I hope they can also get seperate wheel brakes on axis properly through the game, but I don't think that's going to happen. But I'm excited about the prop pitch support, beacuse that can't be made to work quite right without the source, and I do want that feature for myself.

Next project for me is to release G940 button color light support. It won't be using IL-2 info directly, but instead you just run it in the background, then tell it when you are starting a new flight (and if it's on the ground or in the air) and it'll reset to the assumed positions. When you click the 'gear up' button it will go from green to yellow, and then a timer will make it wait the average time gears take to rise in game - and then it will switch to red. IL-2 is very reliable in this respect.

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On the topic of building simpits/controllers etc. I am always seeking immersion, realism, these kind of things. Often thinking of these things, I have come to the realizations:

1. With today's display sizes, headtracking and quality cockpits/instruments inside the simulators; the aircraft instruments, levers, switches - everything - is large and instantly easily readable to us.

Consequence: Seperate screens, indicators, instruments, anything to look at, at all, is not only wasteful but even confusing, since we then get duplicate instruments, serving no purpose, in fact being unimmersive. See exception at the end before protesting.

2. While we can see everything just fine and in detail through our display, interacting with it is a different matter. Using a mouse to move a pointer on the screen to 'manipulate' something is unrealistic on so many levels - a strongly unimmersive, detaching experience. A minor exception is having modern jets with touch displays - having your own touch display displaying the same info to touch is more real and immersive than it is not.

Consequence: To have controls to manipulate and feel, in their relative correct position, is important and promotes immersion. Our rudder pedals, throttles, quadrants, and flightstick, are necessary for interacting with the aircraft and what a pilot would feel. But they don't need to look the same way - in fact, ideally we should not look at them at all when using them, instead keeping our eyes on the (virtual) cockpit alone. There's a gap there currently as there is no virtual representation of your hand moving.

3. The major exception. If one can have real sim cockpit detailed and complete enough to supply all the instrumentation and controls needed, and a display so encompassing and large that headtracking is no longer used, a virtual cockpit would be unrealistic (having two cockpits? Come on). Then one would turn off the cockpit rendering in game and position the mega display so one's own cockpit covers the same area in the field of vision. This is how commercial simulators operate.

---

The future definitely will go in only one direction: Bringing displays onto our heads and miniaturized is the only logical course of development, with head tracking obviously being part of it. Then the rendering of the cockpit will be supremely realistic and all ratios and scales completely true to life. Wearing 'hand trackers' is the most likely add-on for that time, so we can see our hands move around.

When that time comes, simmers will attempt to put a stick with the same feeling as the one in the plane they fly, in the same position, and the same for the throttle. The rest of the controls of an aircraft will be virtual (i.e. no tactile feedback, you are pushing stuff in the air) - at least it will look like you are in a cockpit, and your hand is actually touching things without substance, flipping switches, etc.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

When that time comes, simmers will attempt to put a stick with the same feeling as the one in the plane they fly, in the same position, and the same for the throttle. The rest of the controls of an aircraft will be virtual (i.e. no tactile feedback, you are pushing stuff in the air) - at least it will look like you are in a cockpit, and your hand is actually touching things without substance, flipping switches, etc.

That would be a bit horrible, like texting on an iPhone...but imagine you're wearing gloves and the fingers rumble or the glove stiffens when you're touching something on-screen. You could use a button on the end of one of the fingers to toggle the control with your thumb once you were touching it. I think tactile feedback is the only way that systems like that can work in the long term.

Originally Posted by Azimech

Thanks for the info! I've been aware of the Bodnar interface for a while, mainly because I wanted to integrate a pc in my car and build a custom digital dash. I'll think about it for my flying gear, it's a cleaner solution and potentially looks better.

No problem, the thing that attracts me to the idea is that it's pretty cheap as well, likely cheaper than one of the Saitek throttles + postage. Using good single-turn pots like Vishays also saves you money since good multi-turn pots are quite expensive and the resolution of inputs on Il-2 isn't really high anyway, or at least it doesn't seem to be...the cheaper version of the BU0836 is 10-bit anyway, so a bit of play in the gearing isn't even going to make a huge difference to the precision. It's always worth buying good-quality pots because they last SO much longer than £0.80 throwaway ones like they use in cheap joysticks. Just seems quite easy, I just can't justify to myself buying stuff like this while I'm job-hunting.