What's the best way to...

[flynlion]

Originally Posted by PantherAttack2

I'm no expert on this, but the whole point was to gain an advantage in maneuverability, although at the cost of speed. As far as I'm concerned, combat flaps are a realistic element and is nothing made-up. In BoP, some planes shouldn't have combat flaps, but that doesn't mean all of them shouldn't.

Pulling G with flaps deployed is an excellent way to cause structural damage. If anyone can come up with a single example of WW2 fighter that had a recomended "combat flap" setting, I would love to see it. Might be an interesting research project

[PantherAttack2]

Originally Posted by flynlion

Pulling G with flaps deployed is an excellent way to cause structural damage. If anyone can come up with a single example of WW2 fighter that had a recomended "combat flap" setting, I would love to see it. Might be an interesting research project

I would love to see that too.

And, as I said I'm not an expert at all, but it seems to me like opening flaps to a small degree does help. Obviously you shouldn't have flaps on landing in a dogfight, but flaps at lower angles may help. That's what it looks like, anyways.

[kozzm0]

the fw-190 had hydraulic or electric flaps that could be set at full landing, or at a slight 15-degree takeoff/maneuvering setting. It didn't help much, but it had an effect.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...90/eb-104.html

You're right about the spitfire though: no combat flaps on that thing. landing, or nothing. Giving it a combat setting in BOP gives it an unfair advantage. In real life the 109f had a smaller minimum turn radius.

[SgtPappy]

Originally Posted by kozzm0

the fw-190 had hydraulic or electric flaps that could be set at full landing, or at a slight 15-degree takeoff/maneuvering setting. It didn't help much, but it had an effect.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...90/eb-104.html

You're right about the spitfire though: no combat flaps on that thing. landing, or nothing. Giving it a combat setting in BOP gives it an unfair advantage. In real life the 109f had a smaller minimum turn radius.

It's both an advantage and a disadvantage for the pilot.
In other sims, one could use the landing flaps on a Spit for a sudden decrease in speed at the top of a rolling scissors for example, allwoing a pilot to quickly flip over, retract the flaps and dive on the opponent. I found this very effective in Aces High.

In the other IL-2 games, the landing flaps retracted/deployed much more slowly than in Aces High, so I'd barely use them. In IL-2 however (and Aces High), one could use the superior low speed rate of climb and acceleration the Spitfire VIII/IX had in order to keep at corner velocity or maintain an energy advantage. In BoP, I find that the Spitfire gains speed no better than any other plane, unless the two planes are flying straight and the Spit has a faster top speed. This is a huge disadvantage for me, and I'm finding it quite difficult to energy fight when I can't even gain energy faster than anyone else.

[SgtPappy]

Bump!

Sorry guys, but I'm wondering if anyone's noticed what I'm noticing:

All the piston engine fighters seem to accelerate at the same rate in a straight line. Don't know, but it feels as such when I play.

[kozzm0]

Originally Posted by SgtPappy

It's both an advantage and a disadvantage for the pilot.
In other sims, one could use the landing flaps on a Spit for a sudden decrease in speed at the top of a rolling scissors for example, allwoing a pilot to quickly flip over, retract the flaps and dive on the opponent. I found this very effective in Aces High.

They made combat-settable flaps for the planes that needed them most, but they didn't really do much good... those planes should mostly stay out of the types of situations combat flaps were designed for.

The 109f got much better results from the, what the hell was it called, the extensions on the front of the wings that increased wing area (to lower loading) when necessary. Clever invention, they don't show them in BOP.

[flynlion]

Originally Posted by kozzm0

They made combat-settable flaps for the planes that needed them most, but they didn't really do much good... those planes should mostly stay out of the types of situations combat flaps were designed for.

The 109f got much better results from the, what the hell was it called, the extensions on the front of the wings that increased wing area (to lower loading) when necessary. Clever invention, they don't show them in BOP.

Hi Kozzmo
The leading edge extensions are called "slats", and were designed to allow shorter takeoffs and landings on muddy fields. They were not controlled by the pilot, but were held in the retracted position by airflow and would extend out as airspeed fell below a certain level. Some pilots found this useful in a slow speed turning fight, but many more found that it screwed up their shooting accuracy and flying precision.

[kozzm0]

Originally Posted by flynlion

Hi Kozzmo
The leading edge extensions are called "slats", and were designed to allow shorter takeoffs and landings on muddy fields. They were not controlled by the pilot, but were held in the retracted position by airflow and would extend out as airspeed fell below a certain level. Some pilots found this useful in a slow speed turning fight, but many more found that it screwed up their shooting accuracy and flying precision.

Yeah, that's the things. In other sims I see them automatically drifting forward when I fly a 109f. They look funny, like part of my wings are falling off.

If the pilots didn't like them, they still gave the 109f a great minimum turn radius without having to put big fat wings on the plane. Lot of Luftwaffe aces liked the 109f

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by flynlion

Hi Kozzmo
The leading edge extensions are called "slats", and were designed to allow shorter takeoffs and landings on muddy fields. They were not controlled by the pilot, but were held in the retracted position by airflow and would extend out as airspeed fell below a certain level. Some pilots found this useful in a slow speed turning fight, but many more found that it screwed up their shooting accuracy and flying precision.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...hurri-turn.pdf

In section 4 the test pilot tried using 10 degrees flap to improve the turn in a Me109, it didn't work. Also he found the slots/slats to be a disadvantage in a tight turn as they would open unevenly at high G's and cause one wing to stall.

[winny]

Originally Posted by flynlion

Pulling G with flaps deployed is an excellent way to cause structural damage. If anyone can come up with a single example of WW2 fighter that had a recomended "combat flap" setting, I would love to see it. Might be an interesting research project

Harold W. Scruggs, 24 May 1944, 339th FG "I lowered about 10 degrees flaps and made two 360 degree turns in which I gained rapidly on the E/A…"

Capt. Bradford V. Stevens, 12 September 1944, 339th FG "…I was able to turn inside the Me 109 after dropping 20° flaps."

2nd Lt. Myer R. Winkelman, 6 August 1944, 339th FG "I put down 20° flaps and got on his tail."

2st Lt. S. K. Moats, 29 July 1944, 352nd FG I dropped 20 degrees flaps and after 2 more turns I was closing on the tail of the E/A."

Lt. Glennon T. Moran, 27 May 1944, 352nd FG "We fought for about 20 minutes and it was necessary for me to put down combat flaps three times in order to turn with him."

Major George E. Preddy, 21 June 1944, 352nd FG "He turned into me and I dropped 20 degrees of flaps, out turning him."

1st Lt. Arthur C. Cundy, 14 January 1945, 353rd FG "With throttle pulled back and full flaps down, I overshot this 190."

1st Lt. William J. Cullerton, 2 November 1944, 355th FG "I started to overshoot so I dropped full flaps and gave him another long burst just as he was leveling off to land."

Capt. Walter V. Gresham, 15 August 1944, 355th FG "I downed 40 degrees of flaps and got in another burst which hit him hard."

Capt. Fred R. Haviland, 21 June 1944, 355th FG "At 1,000 feet, I dumped 20 degree flaps and made a turn inside him and started to get within firing range, when the E/A made an abrupt turn, snapped over and crashed into the ground, exploding as he hit the ground."

2nd Lt. Esward Moroney, 2 November 1944, 355th FG "...I put down full flaps and closed on the E/A."
2
All taken from pilots after action reports. (All Mustang pilots) It seems tha 20 degrees was the "combat flap setting"