The show "Dogfights" a great show, but a bit biased?

[Soviet Ace]

Yeah, they should have shown some Soviet, and Japanese fighter pilots. That would have been sweet. They could have mentioned the amazing dogfight between 24 FW190s along with some 109s against 18 Yak-3s. In the end, the there was a loss of 15 German planes, and only 1 Yak-3!!

On the Japanese end, they could have shown the dogfight between Saburo Sakai, and 6 F6F-5 Hellcats at Iwo Jima! That would be cool to.

Yeah, they should definately relive epic combat from the Axis side. Saburo Sakai and his squadron mates (particularly Nishizawa) were some of the best fighter pilots of all time. They could absolutely take combat descriptions in his book Samauri and renact them.

The one thing i really like about BOP is learning things about the Russian side. Growing up, all the books and stories and movies were about American planes and heroes. Russia was so secrective anyway that there just wasn't much data or history known about the Russian side. Hell, there wasn't even any models of there aircraft. Plastic models. I had a hundred of them all over my room. I loved to build them but had not one russian plane. I'm learning that the Russians had a lot more than just numbers on their side. Their planes , stratagies, courage and skill were top notch.

[The_Goalie_94]

Its an American show about AMerican/Allied DOGFIGHTS...not the Japanese or Germen. Thats why its only American. Plus, the P-51 is for some models, more supirior then the BF-109 in everyway...most anyway. DOGFIGHTS really only says the basics.

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by The_Goalie_94

Its an American show about AMerican/Allied DOGFIGHTS...not the Japanese or Germen. Thats why its only American. Plus, the P-51 is for some models, more supirior then the BF-109 in everyway...most anyway. DOGFIGHTS really only says the basics.

Yeah but America is always the winner at the end of these types of program. If not through the planes ability then instead their amazing superior piloting skill. America has had epic fails in war, and I don't think Ive ever seen an american documentry about any of them. I think its because americans don't like to see or be reminded about failure. I see plenty of British documentries on past british cock ups causing deaths during war and such. I think as british we don't mind as much being reminded of these things.

[PantherAttack2]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

I think its because americans don't like to see or be reminded about failure. I see plenty of British documentries on past british cock ups causing deaths during war and such. I think as british we don't mind as much being reminded of these things.

I'm American, and while I obviously don't represent the entire country, I myself don't like the bias (including almost no documentaries involving U.S. defeats), but it is understandable.

A side quest in Fallout 3 involving blowing up Megaton with a nuke was removed from the Japanese version of the game if I remember correctly. I think it makes sense that a country doesn't like to be reminded of failures or bad pasts.

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by PantherAttack2

I'm American, and while I obviously don't represent the entire country, I myself don't like the bias (including almost no documentaries involving U.S. defeats), but it is understandable.

A side quest in Fallout 3 involving blowing up Megaton with a nuke was removed from the Japanese version of the game if I remember correctly. I think it makes sense that a country doesn't like to be reminded of failures or bad pasts.

Really? I didn't know that. Anyway I'll give an example. In Britain we get to hear in documenties about things like how our soldiers were sent into war in Iraq and afganistan sometimes without body armour. About how our nimrod fleet is alegidly unfit to fly but RAF continues to use them saying they're fine. How the original Harrier was a death trap to inexperienced pilots. Ive seen a whole program about the **** ups between HMS Coventry and Sheffield in the falklands war. I think in america these kind of things would be kept quiet. And atemped to be forgoten or smoothed over.

I haven't watched the whole serieses of dogfights but isn't there one with the thundercheif included. I don't remember anything saying how bad the death rate for the pilots flying them in vietnam was, and it certainly didn't go into detail on a failed Thunderchief mission.

Soviet Ace, Yes maybe Ive seen one veitnam documentry, but I don't think it was american.

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

Yeah but America is always the winner at the end of these types of program. If not through the planes ability then instead their amazing superior piloting skill. America has had epic fails in war, and I don't think Ive ever seen an american documentry about any of them. I think its because americans don't like to see or be reminded about failure. I see plenty of British documentries on past british cock ups causing deaths during war and such. I think as british we don't mind as much being reminded of these things.

There are several documentaries about the Vietnam War, and the Indian Wars (which were more or less, one side massacring the other.)

[mattmanB182]

Another thing that really irritated me about this show is that they called it the "ME" 109 when this is technically an incorrect designation. The BF-109 would have been correct.
I know they just give general info, but they should make sure it is correct.

They said the Mustang had a tighter turning radius...perhaps this is tru at extra high altitudes, but generally I do believe the 109 could hang right with the P-51 in the turn. Unless they were talking about the G-6 and later 109's. But even then they should be able to hold their own against the P-51.

The 109 is accuseed of having a very high wingload. Although this is true...the much vaunted Mustang had the same problem.

If I am correct, the Merlin was not fuel injected..so it would not be able to pull the same G forces as the DB601-DB605 engines.

Didnt the Mustangs have terrible problems with stalling out anyway at one point?

About the other biased issue: I have actually seen plenty of American shows pointing out problems and bad things we have done....failures ect....Dogfights is Not one of them.

Back to the thread topic: I am American (German ancestory) and very proud of my country, but I am tired of hearing the same old story with these episodes. Superior Americans or Superior American planes down the German/Japanese.

Yet there is no mention of the Mustangs taken down by Erich near the end of the war. I am sure there are plenty of specific interviews and accounts they could use.

I did not intend to start a debate here, but at leas I now know that I am not crazy.

[FOZ_1983]

Plenty of documentaries over here (uk) that specifically tells of our bad points, our failures and mishaps.

Were not proud of them but we have to at least aknowledge that these things happened without brushing them under the carpet.

Yes our nimrod fleet is messed up, yes our hercules transport planes are a death trap, yes our troops fight without sufficient armour or enough ammo, yes we got mauled in france and had to run away to dunkirk and get rescued by rowing boats, yes the americans beat us in the war of independence, the list goes on...

but how can we know about these thnigs if we are not told?

if we made out we were amazing and never did anything wrong then we would have a very self centred opinionated country of half wits who dont know right from wrong.


GRANTED they cannot put on the history channel "historic" fights between our troops and the taliban because the war is still ongonig and our troops are still getting killed along with americans. But many many years down the line we should be able to look at these things from both sides and understand and hold out hands up to our short coming in certain situations etc, some sort of documentary filmed from the taliban/iraqi perspective. Much like the "dogfight" show should show the great fights from both sides, not just the all conquering, always winning invinsible americans.

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by mattmanB182

Another thing that really irritated me about this show is that they called it the "ME" 109 when this is technically an incorrect designation. The BF-109 would have been correct.
I know they just give general info, but they should make sure it is correct.

Actualy official Luftwaffe documents use both Me and Bf, so both are infact correct. You can use either.

I use Me because usually we are talking about 109F/G/K that were built LONG after the company had changed its name from Bavarian Aircraft Factory to Messerschmitt after their new young Celebrity designer.