Using the fockewulf 190

[guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by David603

The Fw190 is an interesting plane to fly, and lethal if flown the right way, but you are not going to have any success with it if you fly it as a TnB fighter.

The 190 is best used in the Boom-n-Zoom role. Gain altitude before entering the fight, and then attack at high speed from above. Use your excellent high speed agility to get a shot on the enemy if they see you and break, but don't follow them though more than about 90 degrees if you can't kill them on the first pass. Given the way the Fw190s all have a good deal of firepower, this should not be much of a problem. Make one pass, zoom climb to regain altitude and enough separation from your enemy to turn without losing speed. Rinse and repeat, you will be virtually untouchable if you use these tactics. Whatever you do don't slow down, the 190 is one of the worst low speed turners in the game. If you have an enemy on your tail, make sure you keep your speed up, and scissor to force them to overshoot. You should be able to outrun all but the fastest enemies low down. Only the La-7 can match your on-the-deck speed if you are flying a Fw190D-9.

Used this way, the Fw190 is one of the most powerful aircraft around and it can be very rewarding to fly.

only the fact that i have had enemies follow me all the way up , and how can this plane scissor if it can barely turn?

[David603]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

only the fact that i have had enemies follow me all the way up , and how can this plane scissor if it can barely turn?

If your enemies can follow you all the way up then either you aren't entering the fight fast enough or you are wasting to much energy manoeuvring.

The 190 can scissor, but don't start too slow or you will lose too much manouverabiliy compared to your opponent before they overshoot. If you start the scissors at high speed, you will have both a roll rate advantage and an instantaneous turn rate advantage over most enemies, so they will overshoot before the fight slows down too much. If you get caught slow then you have f**ked up badly, and if you get caught slow and low then you will die.

[irrelevant]

I have to wonder if these matches are being played on arcade, where everyone can slam on WEP to keep up with each other. That's the fundamental problem I see with online matches right now. BnZ fighters do not work well in arcade because a TnB fighter can easily keep up with you, or everyone is flying in TnB style... ultimately making it difficult to BnZ an opponent.

Am I wrong?

[Lexandro]

Actually in Arcade I would say B&Z is a bit easier because most people use T&B tactics. A few times Ive tried to chase a 109 thats dived on me but since its already at speed, catching the sucker when he already has a headstart is damn tricky. However maybe a slight decrease in the WEP acceleration for Arcade might be in order. That way diving aircraft will always have a good speed advantage when trying to disengage.

If you do in right in arcade you can drag people all over the map leaving weakspots (for strike) or have them scatter all over. Hell I use B&Z when attacking bombers in arcade for strike matches and its a damn fine tactic with any interceptor.

[Soviet Ace]

You could always roll away or onto your enemy? The 190 is know for having a good roll rate, rather than turning rate, so if you do get someone on your tail, just quickly roll away. Though if your flying against a Yak-3, your going to have a bit of a problem getting away in a roll still?

[David603]

If you're flying a Fw190 and have a Yak-3 on your tail, the getaway technique can be summed up in one word, dive. The light weight that gives the Yak-3 its agility and lets it get reasonable performance out of a 1,290hp engine means it won't have a hope in hell of catching a diving 190, and if you roll around a bit while diving you should be able to get clear with no problems.

Keep the speed up too, a Fw190D-9 can out turn a Yak-3 at any speed above 300mph.

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by David603

If you're flying a Fw190 and have a Yak-3 on your tail, the getaway technique can be summed up in one word, dive. The light weight that gives the Yak-3 its agility and lets it get reasonable performance out of a 1,290hp engine means it won't have a hope in hell of catching a diving 190, and if you roll around a bit while diving you should be able to get clear with no problems.

Keep the speed up too, a Fw190D-9 can out turn a Yak-3 at any speed above 300mph.

True, but if your flying a 190D-9 in Yak-3 territory, don't expect to get anywhere quick. If your flying a Yak-3 at 25,000 feet, then its vise versa.

[David603]

Originally Posted by Soviet Ace

True, but if your flying a 190D-9 in Yak-3 territory, don't expect to get anywhere quick. If your flying a Yak-3 at 25,000 feet, then its vise versa.

I found this nice little tool called Il2 Compare v4.07m this morning, it has the top speeds, climb rates and turn times of every plane in Il2 1946, barring the mod planes of course Since the planes in BoP use the same flight models, all the data should be the same.

The 190D9 is about 40km/h faster at sea level and 80km/h faster at 15,000ft, enjoys a climb rate advantage over the Yak-3 at any altitude, and can outmanoeuvre the Yak-3 if the combat speeds are kept over 300mph, though if the combat speeds drop to 200mph or so the Yak-3 will have a major advantage. So long as a D9 pilot doesn't slow down and play the low speed turning game the Yak-3 is so good at they shouldn't have to worry too much.

[husker]

There are two responses I'd like to offer:

1. BoP is not really the same as true air combat. In the second WW2 (Grandpa Simpson...), German tactics were largely based on 'hit and run'.

Air combat is the most ruthless game there is - ideally, you want to arrange it so that you kill your enemy before they know you are there. The Germans NEVER went for a level playing field eg the co-energy, co-altitude head-to-head merge (as in BoP on-line or some of the relatively artificial set-ups in the single player game). The 1v1 dogfight was considered to be a failure, not a success. Eric Hartmann, the guy who had 352 kills to his credit, would never DF; the vast majority of his kills never saw him (until it was too late).

German tactics were to stalk and bounce their unsuspecting prey, slashing down from the sun or cloud, from altitude, and at speed (they all flew around on full throttle), disengaged, and took a coffee break. Only if all the advantages were in their favour would they try again. It is very hard to replicate this in BoP online (or anywhere in the game, given the limitations of the console format).

In this respect, the Fw-190 was vastly superior to the Spit MkVb, which could not dive, climb or roll anything like as well as the Fw-190. The Spit's only advantage was turn radius, which was only of any use in a sustained turning fight, which the German's didn't join in with - you dictate the fight on YOUR terms, not the enemies. Harsh, but fair. It was only the Spit's MkIX-XIV that could counter the Fw-190 in this respect.

In many ways, excellent roll rate is the best tool you can have both for attack and defence, as it expends little energy and allows rapid changes of direction. Turn radius is only an advantage if you can bring your guns to bear rapidly on an enemy (within a turn and a half), otherwise you'll be out of energy and out of a job (permanently).

2. The only way you can outmanoeuvre a better turning opponent in the Fw-190 is by using the lag (or vector) roll. So, as the enemy breaks left, instead of yanking back on the stick and following him/her round (most likely stalling and spinning to death as in a real Fw-190), you use your superior roll rate to roll RIGHT (away from the bandit) and then roll all the way back to the left, - hey presto! You've cut the corner! Thunderbolt pilots used the same tactic against the Bf-109. Of course, adding a vertical element (like the yo-yo) can help with closure problems but mastering the vector roll will set you up for repeated victories.

As has been pointed, the scissors only works for the Fw-190 if they are high speed. You never want to play along with a low-speed scissors. Just extend, re-position and shoot or disengage.

Check out Mike Spick's book on the Luftwaffe aces or Robert Shaw's book on air combat for confirmation of the above.