Help For Luthier

[Strike]

Yeah, they should really purchase some sound packs so everything is legit. I also totally agree with the sound radar.

In theory, as it is now, I can mod my IL-2 46 sounds to say "RUBBERBABYBUGGYBUMPERS" at max volume when an enemy is firing guns.

Or I could simply record myself saying "100 meters" "200 meters" and then add these tracks to every engine in the game and set the distance to when I hear these sounds to the specified distances. That way I would know the distance to the surrounding aircraft....

I hope sound mods will be banned from the vanilla game, and only allowed in modded servers where EVERYONE is required to have the same sounds.

IRL it should be darn impossible to hear somebody else's engine from internal cockpit view due to the insane volume of your own engine. So maybe multiplayer is better balanced by NOT having the sounds of other aircraft being hearable from inside the cockpit.

Either way, I think this debate ends like KG alpha said: Copyright problems.

We'll have to wait until the devs legally aquire sounds, or design them from scratch! (E.g record Oleg's Lada at all RPM's and overrev it to create damage samples, then HEAVILY modify them to sound like DB600's )

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

The part I have highlighted in the quote means the original source of the mod sounds you advocate.

These are often from other sims/games.

So what we are saying is that other games/sims managed to get the sounds right in the first place.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

So what we are saying is that other games/sims managed to get the sounds right in the first place.

No! I think he is saying that in many cases the moders steal the sounds from other commercial products. They don't generate or record them themselves.

Come on Tree, Copyright law is fairly basic, even in the UK. You could even look it up on the internet if you were really interested.

Just because a noise in a mod pack sounds better to you, doesn't necessarily make it more accurate.

Cheers!

[xnomad]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

What track records that ?

A secure anti cheat sound generation engine that stopped online hackers using sounds as radar !!!

Are you kidding? There is inexhaustible evidence of bad planning/management in the development of this game, that really isn't even debatable.

Now look at all my previous posts, I'm not a hater and I enjoy this game, but to sugar coat it and say that their track record so far is good, is taking it a bit too far. Yes I feel I've got my money's worth and I'm grateful for all the hard work that the devs are putting in but I can still state my opinion can't I?

I don't know why you are bringing up the 'anti cheat sound engine' I wasn't talking about that.

As I said I can live with the sound, but I think they've got a chance to start from scratch so they might as well take this opportunity and get it right, but I in my opinion I don't think they will.

When the new sound engine gets released I'll happily admit I'm wrong about this if they do improve the sounds, otherwise I'll dig this thread up again and say "I told you so". I hope I'm wrong.....

[Les]

I actually dislike hearing the same 'air-show fly-by' sound that plays regardless of where the plane is located in space and what it's engine is doing at the time, more than I do the gutless synthesized lawn-mower engine kind of sound effect.

Which is to say, I personally prefer 'Dynamic' sounds rather than 'Canned' sounds. That is, sounds that change dynamically depending on what's happening in the game, rather than pre-recorded sounds that just stop and start depending on what's happening in-game.

It's my understanding that Maddox games also prefer to use Dynamic rather than Canned sounds.

The problem as I see it is that their synthetic dynamic sounds simply lack the range and detail of the more 'organic' canned sounds that you can get with good quality field-recordings.

I honestly think if their synthetic sounds were just 'beefier' and didn't loop with such obvious digital precision there'd be a lot fewer compaints about the sound in general. And it puzzles me why they haven't ever 'beefed-up' and randomized their sounds more.

The kinds of plane engines we have in-game should raise the hairs on the back of your neck and strike fear into the hearts of your enemies when they're cranked up. If they were realistically depicted, people would start up the engines in their planes and just sit there revving the motor up and down like engine enthusiasts do in real life.

The current sounds are so far from that, and always have been, that it isn't funny. But I don't see ripping the sounds from other sources as a solution, even if you can find a way to 'get away with it'.

In my opinion the developers need to stick with using a dynamic, synthetic, sound system like they have in the past. But they need to introduce more variables into their sounds, pushing the complexity of it right up to the technological limit, and they simply need to find a way to make their engine's sound-samples sound more like they do in real life.

I suspect though, that to re-create those bone-rattling, hair-raising sounds using synthesized sounds would require a level of sonic artistry and mastery that most 'audio-guys' wouldn't have. Kind of like handing someone a Rembrandt and asking them to recreate it from scratch in some kind of 'Paint' program. Some people could do a pretty good job of that, but does Maddox games have access to audio artists of that calibre?

The way I see it at the moment is, the sounds of the engines lack the same detail and level of accuracy/authenticity that, for example, the graphical depictions of the planes have.

And beyond that, and just as important I'd say, the game has large amounts of it's potential sounds absent altogether. There's a long way to go in that regard too.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. Just stating the obvious.

If they're re-doing their sound engine altogether, I hope they're doing it in such a way that it can call up more samples in a more complex arrangement than before, and that the samples themselves are more complex and tune-able than before, so that they can be made distinguishable from each other while still retaining that base-level grunt or power that these engines should have.

[Ibis]

Originally Posted by Les

I actually dislike hearing the same 'air-show fly-by' sound that plays regardless of where the plane is located in space and what it's engine is doing at the time, more than I do the gutless synthesized lawn-mower engine kind of sound effect.

Which is to say, I personally prefer 'Dynamic' sounds rather than 'Canned' sounds. That is, sounds that change dynamically depending on what's happening in the game, rather than pre-recorded sounds that just stop and start depending on what's happening in-game.

It's my understanding that Maddox games also prefer to use Dynamic rather than Canned sounds.

The problem as I see it is that their synthetic dynamic sounds simply lack the range and detail of the more 'organic' canned sounds that you can get with good quality field-recordings.

I honestly think if their synthetic sounds were just 'beefier' and didn't loop with such obvious digital precision there'd be a lot fewer compaints about the sound in general. And it puzzles me why they haven't ever 'beefed-up' and randomized their sounds more.

The kinds of plane engines we have in-game should raise the hairs on the back of your neck and strike fear into the hearts of your enemies when they're cranked up. If they were realistically depicted, people would start up the engines in their planes and just sit there revving the motor up and down like engine enthusiasts do in real life.

The current sounds are so far from that, and always have been, that it isn't funny. But I don't see ripping the sounds from other sources as a solution, even if you can find a way to 'get away with it'.

In my opinion the developers need to stick with using a dynamic, synthetic, sound system like they have in the past. But they need to introduce more variables into their sounds, pushing the complexity of it right up to the technological limit, and they simply need to find a way to make their engine's sound-samples sound more like they do in real life.

I suspect though, that to re-create those bone-rattling, hair-raising sounds using synthesized sounds would require a level of sonic artistry and mastery that most 'audio-guys' wouldn't have. Kind of like handing someone a Rembrandt and asking them to recreate it from scratch in some kind of 'Paint' program. Some people could do a pretty good job of that, but does Maddox games have access to audio artists of that calibre?

The way I see it at the moment is, the sounds of the engines lack the same detail and level of accuracy/authenticity that, for example, the graphical depictions of the planes have.

And beyond that, and just as important I'd say, the game has large amounts of it's potential sounds absent altogether. There's a long way to go in that regard too.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. Just stating the obvious.

If they're re-doing their sound engine altogether, I hope they're doing it in such a way that it can call up more samples in a more complex arrangement than before, and that the samples themselves are more complex and tune-able than before, so that they can be made distinguishable from each other while still retaining that base-level grunt or power that these engines should have.

================================================== ======

Give this man a big fat cigar.
That is the best critique of the sound problem I've heard, or rather read, in hundreds of posts on the matter.
thanks Les,
Ibis.


.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Les

I actually dislike hearing the same 'air-show fly-by' sound that plays regardless of where the plane is located in space and what it's engine is doing at the time, more than I do the gutless synthesized lawn-mower engine kind of sound effect.

Which is to say, I personally prefer 'Dynamic' sounds rather than 'Canned' sounds. That is, sounds that change dynamically depending on what's happening in the game, rather than pre-recorded sounds that just stop and start depending on what's happening in-game.

It's my understanding that Maddox games also prefer to use Dynamic rather than Canned sounds.

The problem as I see it is that their synthetic dynamic sounds simply lack the range and detail of the more 'organic' canned sounds that you can get with good quality field-recordings.

I honestly think if their synthetic sounds were just 'beefier' and didn't loop with such obvious digital precision there'd be a lot fewer compaints about the sound in general. And it puzzles me why they haven't ever 'beefed-up' and randomized their sounds more.

The kinds of plane engines we have in-game should raise the hairs on the back of your neck and strike fear into the hearts of your enemies when they're cranked up. If they were realistically depicted, people would start up the engines in their planes and just sit there revving the motor up and down like engine enthusiasts do in real life.

The current sounds are so far from that, and always have been, that it isn't funny. But I don't see ripping the sounds from other sources as a solution, even if you can find a way to 'get away with it'.

In my opinion the developers need to stick with using a dynamic, synthetic, sound system like they have in the past. But they need to introduce more variables into their sounds, pushing the complexity of it right up to the technological limit, and they simply need to find a way to make their engine's sound-samples sound more like they do in real life.

I suspect though, that to re-create those bone-rattling, hair-raising sounds using synthesized sounds would require a level of sonic artistry and mastery that most 'audio-guys' wouldn't have. Kind of like handing someone a Rembrandt and asking them to recreate it from scratch in some kind of 'Paint' program. Some people could do a pretty good job of that, but does Maddox games have access to audio artists of that calibre?

The way I see it at the moment is, the sounds of the engines lack the same detail and level of accuracy/authenticity that, for example, the graphical depictions of the planes have.

And beyond that, and just as important I'd say, the game has large amounts of it's potential sounds absent altogether. There's a long way to go in that regard too.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. Just stating the obvious.

If they're re-doing their sound engine altogether, I hope they're doing it in such a way that it can call up more samples in a more complex arrangement than before, and that the samples themselves are more complex and tune-able than before, so that they can be made distinguishable from each other while still retaining that base-level grunt or power that these engines should have.

+1 on all counts, especially the dynamic nature of sound.

I used mods in IL2:1946 because it was a case of weaker sounding looping samples vs throatier sounding looping samples.

In CoD however i don't use mods yet, because the stock in-cockpit sounds are dynamic enough to let me understand what's going on with the engine. This helps me loads in flying full CEM, so i can't go to looped samples just yet.