..just another open letter to Luthier, Oleg and 1C

[Rattlehead]

Communication can be better, but it's a double edged sword in a way.

I agree that it would not hurt one bit for Luthier to quickly pop on here and say: "Sorry, no patch this weekend...very busy right now...got to run."

But on the other hand, do we expect him to lay out a roadmap for the next two or three months? That can get messy.
If he commits himself to saying that (for example) engine sounds will be implemented in the next two months, people are going to consider that written in stone and hold him to that.
Then some problem crops up, maybe something nothing related to sound, but it puts the schedule behind by a few weeks.
Then people start compaining that they were lied to, that this game will never be finished etc.
You know how it goes.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

Communication can be better, but it's a double edged sword in a way.

I agree that it would not hurt one bit for Luthier to quickly pop on here and say: "Sorry, no patch this weekend...very busy right now...got to run."

But on the other hand, do we expect him to lay out a roadmap for the next two or three months? That can get messy.
If he commits himself to saying that (for example) engine sounds will be implemented in the next two months, people are going to consider that written in stone and hold him to that.
Then some problem crops up, maybe something nothing related to sound, but it puts the schedule behind by a few weeks.
Then people start compaining that they were lied to, that this game will never be finished etc.
You know how it goes.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yeah you right. But he used to come here on fridays and drop a message: We might be posting up a beta patch in a couple hours, or if not ready by tonight it will appear on monday.

People can't possibly be saying this is written in stone at all... And it makes us more patient (or not, but it certainly gives us some understanding of what's being done and what to expect shortly), unlike being left in total blackout.

Especially since the last (3rd) betapatch which we have yet to know if he is going to implement it, or not implement it, is he going to make a beta patch (BetaPatch episode IV: A new hope) or jump straight to an official release...

etc... etc...

[Skiiwa]

They ARE working their butts off as far as I can tell. Game gets better every other patch or so I would wrather get 1 messge from Luthier than 10 messges from a PR agent.

Just my 2 cents.

Chris

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

Communication can be better, but it's a double edged sword in a way.

I agree that it would not hurt one bit for Luthier to quickly pop on here and say: "Sorry, no patch this weekend...very busy right now...got to run."

But on the other hand, do we expect him to lay out a roadmap for the next two or three months? That can get messy.
If he commits himself to saying that (for example) engine sounds will be implemented in the next two months, people are going to consider that written in stone and hold him to that.
Then some problem crops up, maybe something nothing related to sound, but it puts the schedule behind by a few weeks.
Then people start compaining that they were lied to, that this game will never be finished etc.
You know how it goes.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Rattlehead, these guys aren't doing this in their spare time, they're doing it as a job and they're expected to have a roadmap and respect the promises they do. It's a hobby for us, not for them. The sounds example is classic, they haven't made any comments on it AT ALL, that's simply unacceptable.

[Rattlehead]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Rattlehead, these guys aren't doing this in their spare time, they're doing it as a job and they're expected to have a roadmap and respect the promises they do. It's a hobby for us, not for them. The sounds example is classic, they haven't made any comments on it AT ALL, that's simply unacceptable.

Yeah, I must admit that after reading your posts on this thread a few times over (for clarity) your point makes sense.
It would be comforting to know what the score is (pardon the pun) on the sound issue, that being one of many examples.

[Chivas]

I thought Maddox games has been letting us know where they stand. I know they have been working almost 24/7 to improve performance, fix bugs, and canceled their May holidays. They hoped to have another patch this week, but I figure its quite obvious that they've run into some technical difficulties, and doesn't require an immediate update.

"don't really appreciate your patronizing attitude anymore" doesn't sound that constructive either.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Chivas

I thought Maddox games has been letting us know where they stand. I know they have been working almost 24/7 to improve performance, fix bugs, and canceled their May holidays. They hoped to have another patch this week, but I figure its quite obvious that they've run into some technical difficulties, and doesn't require an immediate update.

"don't really appreciate your patronizing attitude anymore" doesn't sound that constructive either.

Chivas, you have been around long enough to know that things have been like this for YEARS.

The (in)famous "the patch will be out in two weeks" pun is legend on the IL-2 related forums, they never made an effort to make their comms more effective. I know they're rushing, but if they want to be taken as a serious gaming company they need to get down from their "we're simulation rockstars" pedestal and interact with the community more, and I'm not necessarily talking about questions and answers, cos it can wear you off over time, I'd be very happy with a one way regular output, i.e. "these are our long term plans, as things are now this is our potential, we're looking for these things, we don't need these other things; these are our short term plans, etc.."

Many people came to the conclusion that we bought a late beta and that we're helping them tweaking it before the release to the US market, but that's just an assumption, nobody ever bothered saying "sorry, we kinda screwed up, we delivered an incomplete product because our distributor is a pain in the ass, but hey, we're working on fixing things", instead we get quick updates, with swift and sometimes sarcastic explanations of what has been fixed (an example is the explanation of the instrument flicker thing, where many of us people with flying experience said "nice, but it's overdone" and the reply we get on the patch is "Replaced every tachometer in every British and Italian plane with an electrical type, since some people find needle movement on the mechanical type not what they expected." )

To me it looks like the work of someone that doesn't wanna be there, but has to and leaves sarcastic comments based on his frustration.

I know it's probably not the case, but the sarcasm doesn't really make things better.


As for the patronising, it's always been like that, and I'm sorry if my comment doesn't help, but the guys have been proven wrong several times and never admitted it or apologised. Again don't get me wrong, I love what they do, but the guys really need to make an effort to come out and talk about the fantastic features of the sim.

Little gems like the machine gun tapes coming off on spits and hurris after you shoot, or the plane's paint wearing off as you proceed your career are things that should be highlighted on and on because that's what makes the difference between what they do and the rest of the crap that is out there.

[Chivas]

We know the long term plan is much the same as IL-2. Develop most of the major air theaters of WW2. They have also hinted that the sim can go as far as a combined forces sim, but thats a long way off.

We know the short term plan is the finish COD.

We know the game was forced out the door before it was ready. UBI/IC/Maddox games aren't stupid enough to release the game in this condition with the unprecedented poor publicity that would entail, unless it was absolutely necessary.


Yes, UBI/IC/Maddox games could have been honest and let everyone know that the state of the game before it was released, but that also could have curtailed enough sales that the sim would have to be canceled anyway.

Personally I much prefer beta testing COD now than having the game canceled. Yes its a pain, but there is enough usable content to keep me entertained as the updates improve sim. Atleast its much more entertaining than never having COD, or waiting for the next sim from Gaijin, Microsoft, Micropose, Rowan, or 777 Studios.

[Storm of When]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Chivas, you have been around long enough to know that things have been like this for YEARS.

The (in)famous "the patch will be out in two weeks" pun is legend on the IL-2 related forums, they never made an effort to make their comms more effective. I know they're rushing, but if they want to be taken as a serious gaming company they need to get down from their "we're simulation rockstars" pedestal and interact with the community more, and I'm not necessarily talking about questions and answers, cos it can wear you off over time, I'd be very happy with a one way regular output, i.e. "these are our long term plans, as things are now this is our potential, we're looking for these things, we don't need these other things; these are our short term plans, etc.."

Many people came to the conclusion that we bought a late beta and that we're helping them tweaking it before the release to the US market, but that's just an assumption, nobody ever bothered saying "sorry, we kinda screwed up, we delivered an incomplete product because our distributor is a pain in the ass, but hey, we're working on fixing things", instead we get quick updates, with swift and sometimes sarcastic explanations of what has been fixed (an example is the explanation of the instrument flicker thing, where many of us people with flying experience said "nice, but it's overdone" and the reply we get on the patch is "Replaced every tachometer in every British and Italian plane with an electrical type, since some people find needle movement on the mechanical type not what they expected." )

To me it looks like the work of someone that doesn't wanna be there, but has to and leaves sarcastic comments based on his frustration.

I know it's probably not the case, but the sarcasm doesn't really make things better.


As for the patronising, it's always been like that, and I'm sorry if my comment doesn't help, but the guys have been proven wrong several times and never admitted it or apologised. Again don't get me wrong, I love what they do, but the guys really need to make an effort to come out and talk about the fantastic features of the sim.

Little gems like the machine gun tapes coming off on spits and hurris after you shoot, or the plane's paint wearing off as you proceed your career are things that should be highlighted on and on because that's what makes the difference between what they do and the rest of the crap that is out there.

Great post mate exactly how a lot of my forums members feel, duped would sum it up in one word.

Tbh i`ve almost stopped playing this release ( I bought 2 copies btw in good faith, 1 for our server and 1 for my PC), if they`d have said paid beta no one would`ve complained, instead they relied on the faith placed in them by thousands who supported their every move over 9 years of Il2 and released a game allegedly 6 years in the making which was is so badly flawed that after years of waiting I often can`t be bothered to play it. Ask yourself why there wasn`t a trial version or any tangeable gameplay shots. I`d call that deceipt.

I expect this will improve and in whatever timescale the sim will be the best out there, I resent being duped though.

[carguy_]

Sternjaeger II,
your post is a perfect example of a calm, well mannered criticism that is posted with standard respect for another human being. I don`t agree with you, though I highly welcome such attitude.

I think that since the beta patch was released, it is obvious that it is being worked on to hit Steam anywhere near the game`s US release. We pretty much have that covered. We also have good guess about what is the first expansion pack scheduled for release. Ok?

Now, what is beyond me are the folks who sit in here forums few hours a day doing nothing but flaming the devs, with no respect whatsovever. Nothing worth posting, just "make this game work or I`ll cry" drivel. Now I, even if I was feeling cheated by the initial release, I couldn`t post daily about how I feel about it. No time for that, gotta go shopping, gotta pay the bils, gotta go to work, gotta spend some quality time with family/friends. So the question rises : who are those people moaning here everyday? I would think they are people who have nothing else to do but sit in front of their monitor. And yet, this game being half-broken leads them to think that the sky is falling. The truth is that the sky is NOT falling. Every normal human being can`t be bothered with posting such drivel nearly every day. So much venom, so much frustration. Even with moderators working here to clean the drivel out of this forum, they can`t put a stop to it, because there is so many of them. So many pathetic, intelectually challenged people who have no control over their reactions. Why should we even tolerate them? They make everyone else look bad.

Get a life people! For a normal human being, pc entertainment is only a fraction of one`s life.