Damage model is rubbish!

[thundermuffin]

Originally Posted by sod16

Il re quote you on the, "do you think pc gaming is going to be around for ever", You should delete your account for saying that. IF PC gaming stops, then consoles will STOP, Nvidia and ATI will have no reason to develope and research cards specificly made for gaming (thats what they do if you did not know). The ps3 chip was esstially two 6800 Ultras, with a few enhancements, i'll have you know 6800 Ultra's come from PC's and that nvidia and ATI make those for pc's, Consoles are BASED on PC's so no PC no CONSOLE, and believe me i know a lot more then you could imagine on pc's then you might know about a can of coke. So put it this way, you will be stuck playing il 2 birds of prey for the rest of your life if nvidia suddenly decided to say, "PC gaming has stopped".

Right, because thats on topic...

Just out of curiosity here, did you read the IGN Preview of the game? In there, they state, "As Anatoly Subbotin, 1C's PR manager, explained to us, almost all the air combat games that appear on consoles are arcade games with a few flight simulation elements added to them. Birds of Prey will differ because it is a flight simulator with a few arcade elements added to it. At the same time, the game will feature variable realism settings, ranging from a very forgiving arcade flight mode (it's impossible to stall out or get in a spin) to a hardcore realism mode that is comparable to the PC game. "

You are forgetting that this isn't the PC game. They are INTENTIONALLY dumbing it down. Have you seen how the previous games looked on PC and how it now looks? How much money do you think went in to developing what we all know will be a great game? This game is developed to sell a lot as opposed to a PC game that can turn profit on reasonable sales. Regardless of just damage models, complaints about a lack of unfathomable depth is just silly. That won't sell. How much do you think Forza sold. Not as much as Burnout Paradise. The comparison there is a little unfair, but you see where I'm going.

The Kotaku write up is similarly disappointing to the hard core. " hadn't played the PC original. And I'm not a WWII flight-sim guy. But I was worried for those hardcore IL-Sturmovik fans when I was invited to try a multiplayer session of of the 1C-developed, 505 Games-published upcoming console edition of the series. The 505 rep doing the demo started out by saying the game I was about to play would be like Call of Duty in the air."

[sod16]

Originally Posted by thundermuffin

Right, because thats on topic...

Just out of curiosity here, did you read the IGN Preview of the game? In there, they state, "As Anatoly Subbotin, 1C's PR manager, explained to us, almost all the air combat games that appear on consoles are arcade games with a few flight simulation elements added to them. Birds of Prey will differ because it is a flight simulator with a few arcade elements added to it. At the same time, the game will feature variable realism settings, ranging from a very forgiving arcade flight mode (it's impossible to stall out or get in a spin) to a hardcore realism mode that is comparable to the PC game. "

You are forgetting that this isn't the PC game. They are INTENTIONALLY dumbing it down. Have you seen how the previous games looked on PC and how it now looks? How much money do you think went in to developing what we all know will be a great game? This game is developed to sell a lot as opposed to a PC game that can turn profit on reasonable sales. Regardless of just damage models, complaints about a lack of unfathomable depth is just silly. That won't sell. How much do you think Forza sold. Not as much as Burnout Paradise. The comparison there is a little unfair, but you see where I'm going.

The Kotaku write up is similarly disappointing to the hard core. " hadn't played the PC original. And I'm not a WWII flight-sim guy. But I was worried for those hardcore IL-Sturmovik fans when I was invited to try a multiplayer session of of the 1C-developed, 505 Games-published upcoming console edition of the series. The 505 rep doing the demo started out by saying the game I was about to play would be like Call of Duty in the air."

You quoted me on the wrong stuff, READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT PC GAMES AND CONSOLE GAMES, i didnt say it wont SELL or anything, and believe me i know more about economy then you, i know what'l sell more and wont, as i said im criticising SIMPLE things they could have added to make the game more convincing, and yet you go on.

LMAO again forza 2 out sold burnout baradise 4 to 1 so i dont know what you are talking about...... You cannot compared forza 1 to that, they are not of the same era.
Wow i may be a nerd but i cant stand console n00bs.

[BadKarmaSutra96]

LoL "nerdgasm". I had one of those when I built myself a PC last month just so I could play ARMA 2 on very high graphic settings.

But, for me, IL-2 is just an "eargasm" and "eyegasm".

[sod16]

Originally Posted by BadKarmaSutra96

LoL "nerdgasm". I had one of those when I built myself a PC last month just so I could play ARMA 2 on very high graphic settings.

But, for me, IL-2 is just an "eargasm" and "eyegasm".

Are you serious about that? I built one for crysis+ i needed one anyway, lol ARMA 2 is glitchy and buggy has hell

[thundermuffin]

Originally Posted by sod16

You quoted me on the wrong stuff, READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT PC GAMES AND CONSOLE GAMES, i didnt say it wont SELL or anything, and believe me i know more about economy then you, i know what'l sell more and wont, as i said im criticising SIMPLE things they could have added to make the game more convincing, and yet you go on.

LMAO again forza 2 out sold burnout baradise 4 to 1 so i dont know what you are talking about...... You cannot compared forza 1 to that, they are not of the same era.
Wow i may be a nerd but i cant stand console n00bs.

Your arrogance is deceiving you. And fine, forget what I said about sales (again would like to see your marketing/economist credentials to make such a claim) and forget what I said about console to PC comparisons. If you really want to attack my comment w/o ACTUALLY addressing the statement itself, fine, be a child.

But know this: The console crowd is more focused and, with limited releases compared to PC, their attention is easily swayed. Concessions must be made to please them. EVERY SINGLE write up of this game I have read has boasted about how this is the perfect blend of game for an arcade console audience while still giving enough gravy for the hardcore. So complaining about G-Fore deformation is falling on deaf ears. If you want those features, play the earlier versions of the game.

And about Burnout: Paradise... where are you getting your numbers... because that claim is both ludicrous and idiotic... For example: Forza 2 in the month of June 2007 debuted at #6 and eventually moved into the 5 spot selling 500,000 copies... Burnout was in 1st for both consoles in January 2008 and is continuing to sell AMAZINGLY given their after release support.

All of this is off topic, I know, but you brought the fight to me with your sheer arrogance.

[sod16]

Originally Posted by thundermuffin

Your arrogance is deceiving you. And fine, forget what I said about sales (again would like to see your marketing/economist credentials to make such a claim) and forget what I said about console to PC comparisons. If you really want to attack my comment w/o ACTUALLY addressing the statement itself, fine, be a child.

But know this: The console crowd is more focused and, with limited releases compared to PC, their attention is easily swayed. Concessions must be made to please them. EVERY SINGLE write up of this game I have read has boasted about how this is the perfect blend of game for an arcade console audience while still giving enough gravy for the hardcore. So complaining about G-Fore deformation is falling on deaf ears. If you want those features, play the earlier versions of the game.

And about Burnout: Paradise... where are you getting your numbers... because that claim is both ludicrous and idiotic... For example: Forza 2 in the month of June 2007 debuted at #6 and eventually moved into the 5 spot selling 500,000 copies... Burnout was in 1st for both consoles in January 2008 and is continuing to sell AMAZINGLY given their after release support.

All of this is off topic, I know, but you brought the fight to me with your sheer arrogance.

I knew arrogance was going to come into this, but you know, what can you do... Look it does not matter, i like burnout paradise because its smooth, i also love forza 2. You know what though, forza is brilliant at being a simulator (well getting better), burnout is a famous series which was exremely fun to play with friends online. Flight sims on the other hand are known to be quiet boring and not well done such as blazing angels. Those fat 50 year old men in charge of everything are too blind to notist that even a 12 year old likes the idea of realistic, and that if this was a sucess (3 million copies or more) it might go two ways, either the publisher is too blind to notice its the simulation thats selling it, so they bug them to make it more fake and more like eurofighter physics on meth, or for a second release they might boast about more realistic features. We'l have to see.. My personal opinion is that it might not fly off the shelves because people think its another "boring crappy blazing angels thats too hard to play or too easy to play".

[Antinko1]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I agree with Butterfield to a large extent and I would love to see the damage model be as complex as it is in the PC version of the game; however, I don't think it's too much of a big deal when it boils down to it.

I'd rather take a slightly 'dumbed down' damage model and great 'everything else' over super accurate damage and empty game lobbies. I don't wish to sound too hyperbolic but my point is that I don't think that the (God I sound like a snob here) 'masses' will appreciate simulation like we do. The majority of XBOX Live players I know simply like to plug and play*. IL-2 BoP's learning curve is still going to be steep to a player who is used to arcade style flying games and I doubt that they'll stick around very long to appreciate the nuances of having individual aelerons shot off!

So I think it's a matter of give and take. 1C are breaking into a new market and they have to attract new players whilst remaining as loyal as they can to their current player based. I think that they're doing mostly everything right and I'm certainly going to be more forgiving since this is their first attempt. This game certainly beats the living daylights out of H.A.W.X, Blazing Angels and that new one which is coming out which looks rubbish...Heroes over Europe.

*I may be wrong when it comes to applying my perspective to a wider context: I'm just writing from experience and I've only been exposed to what probably is a small percentage of XBOX Live players.

[H Lecter]

Originally Posted by sod16

too blind to notist that even a 12 year old likes the idea of realistic

Yup. When I was 12 I played Microprose's (what an awesome company, I miss them!) Gunship on Commodore C64. I was amazed by the level of detail and invested a lot of time into learning how to do an autorotation landing and understanding the different weapon systems of my helicopter and the opposing enemy forces.

Maybe this is different today. Or wait, actually it's not. The reason why console players are playing dumb games is that they hardly get anything else.

IL-2 tries at least to go into a different direction and if the success proves that they were right we may see a sequel that will hopefully include also a more complex damage model like in the original PC game.

Give the publishers a bit of time to see that their decision to go down the sim route was right

[butterfield]

Originally Posted by H Lecter

Yup. When I was 12 I played Microprose's (what an awesome company, I miss them!) Gunship on Commodore C64. I was amazed by the level of detail and invested a lot of time into learning how to do an autorotation landing and understanding the different weapon systems of my helicopter and the opposing enemy forces.

Maybe this is different today. Or wait, actually it's not. The reason why console players are playing dumb games is that they hardly get anything else.

IL-2 tries at least to go into a different direction and if the success proves that they were right we may see a sequel that will hopefully include also a more complex damage model like in the original PC game.

Give the publishers a bit of time to see that their decision to go down the sim route was right

I remember Gunship on my Amiga 500! For me though the start was flight simulator 1 or 2 on the Apple IIe when I was like 8.... I remember being instantly hooked just sitting on the runway trying to figure out how to take off. Anyway, I was amazed by like you said "the level of detail". Most kids are not stupid and like a realistic game/sim that immerses them.

[sod16]

Originally Posted by butterfield

I remember Gunship on my Amiga 500! For me though the start was flight simulator 1 or 2 on the Apple IIe when I was like 8.... I remember being instantly hooked just sitting on the runway trying to figure out how to take off. Anyway, I was amazed by like you said "the level of detail". Most kids are not stupid and like a realistic game/sim that immerses them.

Publishers are to stupid to know that everyone likes a bit of realistic, they think it wont sell, they are taking the wii approach.