Been a while....

[311thCopperhead]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Urofo (to RAMA)::
Online may be dying with respect to no-mod playing. There isn't anybody left in the sim, except maybe the one-man Copperhead Squad. Words out that even Billfish went mod. Is that true?

Urufo (to SaQSoN)::
hehe

ok number one you........i didn't attack you so you need to keep you pie hole closed. One man squad...hmmm yes that is correct. At the momment.
i have neither the time nor desire to work on building anything regarding the 311th untill SoW.
1. becuse my home/work life absorbs so much of my time,
2. becuse at this point with all the mods and ramant cheating....
it's pointless to put in any type of group practice, activites to compeate online as a team. A coheasive unit. (something i'm sure you would KNOW EVERYTHING about huh.) What good would it do to compeate as team online when the question of dishonesty fouls up the lobby with its rancid stench.

As for Billfish...when in the sam hell did i ever say she uses mods? name one. I've never said anything negative about her and never will. My comments about her in HL are usually about how she killes me anytime were in the same coop. Face the Girl is an ACE and doesn't need any help to get a kill. Where as you just seem to be an Ass.

Sigh i'm not gonna get banned from here to. he's not worth it.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Copper, you did attack him, you attack a great many people when you imply that mod users are cheaters. In fact what he said about you is quite mild compared to what you've said about others who use mods.


Oh and yes, Billfish does use mods now.

[FC99]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

As for me, I don't care about mods vs cheating, but after reading few posts here, just want to say: ALL mods for the IL-2, so far, are LAME.

Just my 5 kopeek (russian equivalent to cents)...

Lame? Are you sure? It's not that everything in Il2 is perfect Few quick examples:
GAME

RL




What do you think about this? Lame? Is game going to be lamer if these errors are corrected?

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

I am just a man, who doesn't wear the pink glasses.

Wearing sunglasses all the time is not too smart either.

BTW Happy New Year to You ,Oleg and the rest of the team, good luck with SOW.

FC

[311thCopperhead]

Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro

Copper, you did attack him, you attack a great many people when you imply that mod users are cheaters. In fact what he said about you is quite mild compared to what you've said about others who use mods.


Oh and yes, Billfish does use mods now.

I never singled any one indvidual out. Period.

Well Billfish does what she does. That's a choice that she made for herself.
Has little to no affect of my opinion of her as a virtual pilot or a person.
Same with Bearcat. He made that choice for himself based on what he belives. Since both of these ppl had my respect prior to what ever choice that they may made for themselvs regarding this issue...it has little to zero correction of my opinion of them no matter weather i agree with thier choices or not. Since there was a familierity there, these are ppl whom i flown with for years, and that have my respect...free pass. I belive that neither would or would need to lower themslevs to manipulation in order to win. They have higher standerds for themselvs. And they have my trust in that regard, as in others.
While i may paint that whole entire section of the community with a very broad brush....there are exceptions IMO.

By the way...I KNOW what your fishing for....and you need to get better bait.
Just becuse i'm from Alabama and i'm ruled by my emotions....does NOT tanlate to me being stuipd. So get over yourself.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

FC99, you image hosting site gives porn pop windows when viewing your images, even on firefox....

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Rama

For coop, you don't have much to fear...
Most of these communities are also flying in inside their communities (one squad or a small group of squads), playing their own coops or their own online campaigns.
The online community is split between many communities, each with their own mod packs (and since mods in different packs use the same java classes with different modifications, these packs are not compatable together)

Someone like me who don't belong to any of theses communities, can't play in games hosted by members of these communities... except if accepting multiple installs of multiples modded games.
If this someone is like me and don't want to fly any mod.... then he's restricted in HL (for flying coops) to fly Airforce War (which attendance has dramatically reduced since 1 year... even if HL global attendance, mostly in dog sessions, hasn't reduced that much).
The time everybody could enter a coop proposed on HL is over.

It isn't a big issue. ROF will be available sometimes in 2009, and SoW:BoB probably end of 2009/begining 2010.... and IL2 will then be restricted to some peoples only interested in modding (like for CFS3 for example), but all non-modder players will switch to the new sims.
... and the IL2 online agony will get an end...

Well IMO the IL2 online agony is self induced.

If I was running a server DF or coop with a stock map and a stock planeset you could join it. Unmodded and all... The reason why there are conflicts with mods and unmodded flyers is because one may not have a certain map or aircraft.... There is a reason why there are so many people using these mods nowadays.. and it has nothing to do with a lack of character.... What I suggest that you and others who feel as you do like Copper & Thor.. etc... do is duplicate your 46 install, which is what I did when I first tried the mods... and Install them to the duplicate folder... and try it for yourself. Fly the planes... check out the maps... even if as I did you do it with a critical eye... looking for the smoking gun... You wont find one. It took me 9 months to try the mods because I had to see for myself how the community would handle the situation .. and another 2 months of flying a completely separate install before I was convinced that there was nothing to fear. Many of the folks who have had issues with mods have installed them wrong or they got conflicting mods...


Not only that... the lines between Coops and DF servers are being blurred. There is a new mod out that allows moveable objects in DF maps... it is still in BETA because it still has kinks.. but it is on the boards... being able to respawn in a coop will basically allow long coops with multiple scenarios limited to the time and creativity of the mission builders... One could conceivably survive a weekend campaign as long as you could make it back to base and land & refuel (respawn) and live to fight ther next mission... I think that COOPs & DFs are both prone to cheaters... but this community is not full of them at this point, and how we all collectively deal with the issue will largely determine how this whole thing pans out because it is an ongoing process and it could still go either way. I will place my faith in the men and women I know, rather than the cheaters I don't know... and continue to promote simming and this sim in particular at every opportunity...... others can do as they please.


To think that all this started because I asked a simple legitimate question...

BTW Urufu.. jujst for clarification.. my head in the sand comment was not towards you but towards those who are still talking about "all the FM, WEP & DM mods" that ae out there.

Some folks may think that some of these mods are lame.. I happen to think that most of them just make an already great sim better. In a way I think that perhaps it is better that the sim got hacked rather than Oleg opening it up. Had he opened it up officially he would have had to offer support for that too... and the tools probably would have been a lot easier to manage. As it is now between the folks who use the mods and the folks who make them there is a great disparity since everyone doesnt have the skill or time to make them and the guys that do make them seem to want to remain as true to 1Cs standards as the can... Which is not to say that some of the mods don't have issues... but the ones I have chosen to use are great... and they just make me appreciate the original product even more. All of us are grownup (Most of us anyway) .. even if we all are subject to occasional lapses into prepubescence, This sim will live on for some time, and frankly i think it would have lived on longer regardless.... but thanks to these mods I think it will live on even longer, and from the looks of things SoW will be so good that those who can or need to will move on, but just as this sim got it's new flyers in trickles and gushes over the years largely due to the harware requierements that even now some folks are just able to come up to... SoW will be the same. I will continue to fly and enjoy this sim for along time DCS & SoW or not.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Well IMO the IL2 online agony is self induced.
The reason why there are conflicts with mods and unmodded flyers is because one may not have a certain map or aircraft

The conflicts I pointed are not just between mods and unmodded flyers, but between different mod packs from different modding communities (mods that modify the code by using the same java classes with different modifications).

Install them to the duplicate folder... and try it for yourself.

I certainly wont... no way will I participate to a system that has the unavoidable effect to split the community of players.
I'm not against mods (I did participate to modding, I helped with many ingame maps, when it was official and controlled), I'm against Chapels. Chapels are unavoidable when the modding isn't controlled by a central authority that decide what's official, do the necessary quality checks and decide to include (or not... which is what potentially bother most of the actual modders that wouldn't accept any control) the mods in the game.
With a non-controlled mod distribution, you can surelly get some good quality mods... but you can't have a unicity of the game (which is for me more important, in the online scope, than the individual quality of some components).
And... the only way to get a centralized management and control... is to have it done by the game dev... there's no alternative.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Rama

The conflicts I pointed are not just between mods and unmodded flyers, but between different mod packs from different modding communities (mods that modify the code by using the same java classes with different modifications).

Rgr... I understand.. and you are right about that..

I certainly wont... no way will I participate to a system that has the unavoidable effect to split the community of players.
I'm not against mods (I did participate to modding, I helped with many ingame maps, when it was official and controlled), I'm against Chapels. Chapels are unavoidable when the modding isn't controlled by a central authority that decide what's official, do the necessary quality checks and decide to include (or not... which is what potentially bother most of the actual modders that wouldn't accept any control) the mods in the game.
With a non-controlled mod distribution, you can surelly get some good quality mods... but you can't have a unicity of the game (which is for me more important, in the online scope, than the individual quality of some components).
And... the only way to get a centralized management and control... is to have it done by the game dev... there's no alternative.

I can respect that .. I disagree but you of course are entitled to your opinion.

[Wolf_Rider]

Whether you disagree or not, that doesn't make you right

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Whether you disagree or not, that doesn't make you right

And your point, it doesn't make him right either, or me, or you, this is why we have discussions, if we all thought the same way it'd be mighty boring.