Dogfighting -does 4.11-4.12 patch address this?

[MaxGunz]

Does anyone else get malware blocked alerts here from their AV?
Because if your AV don't detect them....

[Igo kyu]

Yeah, I get some alerts about dodgy URLs. Seems to depend who posted in the thread. Perhaps some new posters have something invisible and dodgy in their signatures. No, just now got it on the CloD forum with only known posters on the page, must be a hack into/onto the forum.

[Tempest123]

Overall I find 4.12.1 to be a big improvement in terms of evasive maneuvers, nice turns, half rolls, loops etc. Still there is a tendency to do an occasional vertical climb followed by a stall when being chased, which of course usually results in the stalling aircraft being shot down.
There is still the issue of the AI being unable to recognize the need to boom and zoom, for example the Karelian Hawks campaign, the p-36 can run away from the i-153 all day with an altitude advantage, but the AI insists on turn fighting, so your going to lose your whole AI flight once and a while trying to dogfight. I've think i've lost more AI P-36's than Finland even had in the war lol.
The last thing that is improved but still occurs occasionally is AI planes defying physics, pulling 9g's no blacking out, no fatigue, while you're snapping your airframe trying to pull with them, or pulling negative g outside horizontal turns or loops, which would of course be impossible except if we where flying su-31's or something. The AI still posess their "radar" and can tell friend or foe from kilometers away.
I don't know how much more AI tweaking is possible in a 13 year old game engine, but it is better than before

[Laurwin]

AI friend-foe detection probably does work like that somewhat, as in they would know upon seeing something whether its friend or foe.

Althoufh otherwise AI doesnt react to this kind of data with immediate urgency. Probably its because of formation discipline together with maybe AI skill levels.

Effectively what could happen is that once in dot range under 10km, AI probably does see you but still keeps trucking on their flight path. Happens in campaigns, youd have to be coalt at least, preferrably with alt advantage.

Hehe, feels funny when I was playing wildcat campaign i dove straight into a zeke formation. I picked first two bandits out without much reaction, then my AI buddies started attacking them also. Probably tjere were some rookie zekes though.

[Pugo3]

Was swept away with business, hence the black out on my part - interesting to see the various thread postings.

Two clarifications/corrections: I reloaded Win 7 Prof a few weeks ago, and found that the multiple AI combats are just fine.

My original posting comments were based on my combats years ago using my previous XP set up, mostly using 4.07. I mentioned in another post re a serious drop in performance from my previous XP set up to my current W7 computer, and it may be that not only my aircraft but the AI were all overamped, as the AI then were on me like angry hornets, very quick and fast. I had pretty much abandoned fighting against multiples due to the seeming rocket performance of the AI, which was enhanced with multiple AI adversaries. With my W7 reload, all is well..."nevermind", so to speak! The one respondents’ comments [Bearcat, I believe] regarding taking on multiple AI in ACE mode are also duly noted, thank you.

Regarding my statement that the majority of combats were close in dog fighting, I should have specified when the combatants have seen each other... I accept the corrections of those who contended with my posting in this regard – unseen assailants did make up the majority of combat kills. Having conceded my overstatement, no combatant would stay in the combat zone if when encountering an enemy the opposing fighter simply climbed away to set up for b&z – the German pilots often relied on their camouflage to disengage at an opportune time; always better to head home for lunch and rest than play target to an enemy fighter. So again, not realistic in the main with this scenario being the default response in the game, though by the reports I understand that the AI in 4.12 no longer possesses omniscient vision to follow you all the way back to base at high altitude…if this is the case, then eluding such tactics would be relatively easy. But would crossing aircraft having mutually seen each other climb away like this or begin to engage?

Regarding my comment re AI refusing close dogfighting against certain opposing aircraft, my request was that the option might be available to experience dogfights which are not available at present, that did in fact historically occur on many occasions. Just a request. I mentioned in another posting some time ago that perhaps a toggle switch in the set up might offer options as follows: "Dogfight", "B&Z", "Random" As it stands, the option is entirely unavailable at present, and adding this feature would enhance, not degrade the game.


If you review my original posting: you will note that I acknowledged and thanked both the originators and current developers working to improve Il-2 1946. Offering suggestions or constructive criticisms are not attacks against the developers present and past, nor attacks against Ubisoft, nor requests to degrade the game. Such comments are a reveal of certain persons lacking decency and integrity who participate in forums, a plague of our times. There is no possibility of any present developer to correct these types…that will need to wait for another developer.

p3

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pugo3

Regarding my statement that the majority of combats were close in dog fighting, I should have specified when the combatants have seen each other...

I'd still doubt that, but at least they did happen on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by Pugo3

I accept the corrections of those who contended with my posting in this regard – unseen assailants did make up the majority of combat kills. Having conceded my overstatement, no combatant would stay in the combat zone if when encountering an enemy the opposing fighter simply climbed away to set up for b&z – the German pilots often relied on their camouflage to disengage at an opportune time; always better to head home for lunch and rest than play target to an enemy fighter. So again, not realistic in the main with this scenario being the default response in the game, though by the reports I understand that the AI in 4.12 no longer possesses omniscient vision to follow you all the way back to base at high altitude…if this is the case, then eluding such tactics would be relatively easy.

Yes, the AI that doesn't see all is a blessing, and you can catch them with thier "pants down", and you can run from them and they lose interest after some while, and you can hide in clouds. I do think the AI, especially the less capable ones have a too good situational awareness and once you are spotted it is difficult too attack even rookie AI from blind spots.

Originally Posted by Pugo3

But would crossing aircraft having mutually seen each other climb away like this or begin to engage?

Depending on numbers, pilots experience and training, planes and mission of those planes, both flights could have reason to engage or not. If both planes capabilities are close, and both sides pilots knowing that fact, they could try to get the enemy now, when he is still at equal footing. But one can also argue that when the enemy knows of your presence you have given away your greatest possible advantage - and you risk too much when engaging now. And then there are mission constraints e. g. a pilot on CAP does not have the luxury of avoiding the fight.

[Pugo3]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

... And then there are mission constraints e. g. a pilot on CAP does not have the luxury of avoiding the fight.

Yes, I've discussed this before too, events presented in such a way as to demand engagement. Others have posted accurately, as you mentioned as well, regarding not engaging certainly being the best option in many instances; however, the opposite was true as well. Mission constraints, someone in trouble, etc.

What I am proposing is simply to have the opportunity to see how one aircraft would compare in a classic dogfight with another type, and the challenge of using your aircrafts' strengths and your piloting abilities to overcome an adversary. Robert Johnson described coming upon a Spit Mk IV when flying a T-bolt with the new paddle blade props - with an exchanged look and thumbs up sign, the Brit and US pilot began a mock combat, which ended with Johnson gaining the win [established kill position, checkmate] You read such accounts from all sides, seeing how one aircraft maneuvered with another in a close in fight. It is a primal instinct of fighter pilots to want to test their aircraft against a rivals bird.

However, as I related in my original posting, presently a 51' or 47' will not dogfight a 109 or 190. A late war Japanese fighter will not dogfight a Hellcat. An Oscar will not engage a Wildcat. Never. The game presently simulates only one combat option with these match ups, no exceptions: AI flies directly away to begin an endless series of b&z jousting head on passes. Yet combat accounts of dogfights between these aircraft include close in dogfights that lasted sometimes up to 15 minutes or more. It is amazing to me how vigorously and venomously some persons argue and resist this simple truth. The game would be enhanced, not degraded, by the simple addition of close in dogfighting being included as an option for all aircraft.

p3