Another question for TD..

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

And IF they accidentally do get to it, then one shoots his entire ammoload at it and sets it on fire, the second one ignores this and shoots at the bomber too, which by then burns from more than tank and so on.
Target priority algorhytms of the AI currently are bad. And while the enemy AI does work as a team, your own flight does not. And contrary to real life you can't even communicate with them...

I definitely understand this and how it doesn't make any sense at all to shoot at a burning bomber. I curse the AI while I'm offline... and then I take a step online and what do I see? Three guys all jockeying for position shooting at a burning bomber.

I do think the AI targeting could be more teamwork oriented... but I'd argue against it being too logical or absolute. Humans aren't all that logical

[shelby]

Can i ask something else?
What is the difference between the pe-8 and the tb-7 or db-3f and il-4?

[JtD]

The Pe-8 and TB-7 are basically two designations for the same aircraft, as are DB-3 and Il-4. Essentially TB-7 and DB-3 are early designations, Pe-8 and Il-4 late ones.

However, there were subversions that differed from one another. In game we have a Pe-8 with AM-35 engines, and a TB-7 with M-40F diesel engines, which is the key difference here. The main differences between the Il-4 and the DB-3F are the fourth crew member and the upper turret, mounting a 12.7mm gun instead of the 7.62mm gun.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by IceFire

I definitely understand this and how it doesn't make any sense at all to shoot at a burning bomber. I curse the AI while I'm offline... and then I take a step online and what do I see? Three guys all jockeying for position shooting at a burning bomber.

I do think the AI targeting could be more teamwork oriented... but I'd argue against it being too logical or absolute. Humans aren't all that logical

Yeah but that's point-whoring - and because some human ONLINE pilots do it does not excuse the AI. I'd bet that in real life a pilot shooting at a burning plane while there were still plenty of undamaged targets would have had to explain his behaviour to his commander. AI targeting could be at least improved for veteran and ace level. They should know better. There is some more odd behaviour with AI targeting. A nearly undamaged plane with only a dead pilot flying straight and level will not be engaged by anyone -not even FlaK. The AI shouldn't be able to "see" a dead pilot until very close - and maybe even shoot at the plane.

[ElAurens]

All this is why I almost never fly offline.

The AI cheat, cheat all the time, and do nothing but cheat.

I'd rather be shot down by a human that had to actually work for it that by my own computer, which is what the AI are.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

AI does not cheat. I'd rather say, AI is naive and pragmatic.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by ejgr.ost_caspar

ai does not cheat. I'd rather say, ai is naive and pragmatic. :d

lol!!

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

AI does not cheat. I'd rather say, AI is naive and pragmatic.

Not the friendly AI.. although they seem to be better in 4.12

Originally Posted by shelby

Can i ask something else?
What is the difference between the pe-8 and the tb-7 or db-3f and il-4?

Personally I'd prefer that you open your own thread.. because that has nothing to do with this one...

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Yeah but that's point-whoring - and because some human ONLINE pilots do it does not excuse the AI. I'd bet that in real life a pilot shooting at a burning plane while there were still plenty of undamaged targets would have had to explain his behaviour to his commander. AI targeting could be at least improved for veteran and ace level. They should know better. There is some more odd behaviour with AI targeting. A nearly undamaged plane with only a dead pilot flying straight and level will not be engaged by anyone -not even FlaK. The AI shouldn't be able to "see" a dead pilot until very close - and maybe even shoot at the plane.

My hypothesis is that humans are humans regardless of the situation be it real life or simulation. When presented with the same basic parameters they will do the same basic things on aggregate. In the heat of combat, target fixation becomes a concern and two guys shooting at the same burning plane can (and did) happen. There's even a gun camera shot that I saw where one Hellcat's gun camera captures another Hellcat fly in front of him while what appears to be a Zero is getting shot at by both. So, while it's less likely that point whoring would go on in real life (at least not like we see it)... target fixation looks fairly similar. At least some of the notorious kill stealing and shoulder shooting is caused by total target fixation. You can watch it happen. They are oblivious to all around them.

The problem with the AI right now is that they have a switch. If the target has bailed out or lost a wing then the aircraft is considered dead. If the plane is burning but still flying then it's considered a viable target. What needs to be programmed is a a greater range of recognition.

For example, the AI should keep firing if it's a plane that they lit on fire because just because it's flaming doesn't mean that it's going down. Maybe it should only do this 75% of the time (roll the dice) and sometimes leave a flaming aircraft alone. The AI should check and see if they lit it on fire... if not then leave it. Perhaps that happens 75% of the time. Or variable ranges depending on Rookie or Ace level.

The biggest problem I have with AI and AI programming, and I know exactly why it happens (CPU resources), is that it's too mechanical. Humans make all kinds of snap micro decisions and they aren't all logical or predictable. The AI, with a basic level of programming, is entirely logical and predictable and obviously that's less desirable.

[JtD]

Well Ice, I agree with your hypothesis, but the basic parameters are too different between real life and a computer game to have people do the same basics things.
But AI is AI, make them like human players and no air battle will appear like a WW2 air battle, make them like WW2 pilots and offline the game will a very odd experience.