Pilot kill after pilot kill. How do they do it??

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

I did. You seem to be confusing "my source doesn't mention the tungsten ammo" or "the tungsten ammo was less common than the standard ammo" with "the tungsten ammo was in short supply"

If you can't quote it, then I'll accept that you agree.

Not confused, the ammunition was in short supply, wasn't part of the standard loadout.

Did it exist as part of a Luftwaffe ordinance plan? No idea. Probably, at some point, who knows when?

I actually think its up to advocates for its use to prove it was a part of the battle.

More importantly, like other glitches which affect the game, it is creating an ahistorical enviroment.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Not confused, the ammunition was in short supply, wasn't part of the standard loadout.

You don't have a source, but you keep claiming there was some kind of ammo shortage with that particular round.

[lonewulf]

I don't know if people are or aren't using 100% 8mm tungsten, but even if they are, is it really an issue? If 2cm cannon rounds easily penetrate aircraft armour (ball goes through about 14mm worth at 200m - that's more than twice the thickness of a Spit back plate) what's the difference? It just means that an E 1 can probably kill you just as quick as an E 3, if it gets rounds on your head or back plate. The trick of course, as others have already pointed out, is to avoid a situation where this can happen. Much easier said than done of course but that's the challenge.

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by lonewulf

I don't know if people are or aren't using 100% 8mm tungsten, but even if they are, is it really an issue? If 2cm cannon rounds easily penetrate aircraft armour (ball goes through about 14mm worth at 200m - that's more than twice the thickness of a Spit back plate) what's the difference? It just means that an E 1 can probably kill you just as quick as an E 3, if it gets rounds on your head or back plate. The trick of course, as others have already pointed out, is to avoid a situation where this can happen. Much easier said than done of course but that's the challenge.

Nope not at all.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by lonewulf

I don't know if people are or aren't using 100% 8mm tungsten, but even if they are, is it really an issue? If 2cm cannon rounds easily penetrate aircraft armour (ball goes through about 14mm worth at 200m - that's more than twice the thickness of a Spit back plate) what's the difference? It just means that an E 1 can probably kill you just as quick as an E 3, if it gets rounds on your head or back plate. The trick of course, as others have already pointed out, is to avoid a situation where this can happen. Much easier said than done of course but that's the challenge.

Actually M-Geschoss actually had poor penetration when it came to armour, what it did was penetrate the skin of the aircraft, then explode, and because of the large amount of explosive filling, more than a standard HE round, the explosive force was enough to blow whole sections of the aircraft skin off, and without the skin strength, the structures of wings and fuselage often failed.

This particular 7.92mm tungsten round in the game gives the German side an ahistorical advantage which they did not have.

It allows players to load up 2000 rounds and 60 seconds worth of firing into the E-1, and get equal power, same penetration as a 20mm AP round, more firing time, and better accuracy than the 20mm cannon in the E-3 and E-4, which the Luftwaffe said was a better weapons system, and which only allowed Luftwaffe pilots 7 seconds of firing time.

The game has created a weapons system for the 109's which isn't based on any kind of historical reality. The Germans were converting their MG armed E-1's as fast as they could into cannon armed versions because the cannon versions were more effective. The real life pilots complained when they had to fly the E-1's. The opposite is happening in CoD. Go on the servers, the guys who have the biggest scores are flying the E-1, and Blue flyers are converting wholesale into this plane from the E-3 and E-4.

Where are the tests showing what this round could do in penetrative terms? Where are the historical records showing its use in Luftwaffe fighters in 1940? No one has produced anything.

What we have now is a legal hack, we might as well allow the Germans to use the pulse cannon of the Su-26.

[BadgerSmedly]

Tally Ho Gents!

Wasn't Paul Richie given a near fatal neck wound from an AP round going through his hurricane's seat back plate whilst he was in France? Circa 1939/1940. Can't get to the book at the mo but will confirm.

I remember that the undertone was that after this everyone had noted that the 'game had changed'.

Regards

Badger

[Ze-Jamz]

Fellas neither side can prove how abundant these rounds were and I'm guessing the devs couldn't either so they are modeled...get over it

You've count de whilde in abundance which causes a lot of DMG to a 109, you talk about the big hitters using the e1....not true

Numbers of E1 have risen due to you harping on in this thread

ALSO

Beos do not work online in any 109 so regardless what model you take were going to load SMKh

Just stop on your quest now

EDIT
Seriously we've gone from the whiners and the fanbois at war for how long? Now we've got the finished no more updates on CoD certain members have finished from here crawled back under there rocks but now we've got another breed of purists counting the rivots..

If people want to load 100% of a certain ammo let them do it, you play your historical load out game but don't try and force it on others...go play a server that sanctions it...

In every game off every genre on every forum your get the ones shouting the loudest who are on the receiving end just like the blues moaning about the spits Alt advantage in game now yada yada..

Sort it out before you get the ammo changed too

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz

Fellas neither side can prove how abundant these rounds were and I'm guessing the devs couldn't either so they are modeled...get over it

I'm calling Bullsh*t on this.

I have already provided proof these rounds were 1-2% of the total LMG rounds manufactured, in addition, there was a known shortage of Wolfram the raw material used to manufacture Tungsten Acid, which was such the whole manufacture of the material was discontinued in 1942.

In addition, the Wehrmacht used the rounds as well, they were not made for the Luftwaffe exclusively, and the Wehrmacht had huge requirements, there were over 750,000 MG34 and MG42's produced for them, compared to 24,000 MG17's for the Luftwaffe.

The game shows the historical belt loadouts for both sides, as 'Default', and the SmK (H) is not even listed as part of the historical belt loadouts for 109E's.

[ZaltysZ]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

The game has created a weapons system for the 109's which isn't based on any kind of historical reality. The Germans were converting their MG armed E-1's as fast as they could into cannon armed versions because the cannon versions were more effective. The real life pilots complained when they had to fly the E-1's. The opposite is happening in CoD. Go on the servers, the guys who have the biggest scores are flying the E-1, and Blue flyers are converting wholesale into this plane from the E-3 and E-4.

Maybe there is nothing wrong with weapon system, but there is something wrong with DM? Repka server is very good for pointing this, because it is possible to fight against any plane there. If E4 hits another BF109 there, wings break off 8 out of 10 times. If E4 hits Spit, Spit gets damage in various parts, but still continues to fly and even soaks another 1-2 bursts of MG-FF/M before it crashes due to control damage or pilot death. It is easier and faster to kill pilot with tungsten rounds, than to kill Spit with mine shells, and that stimulates preference for E1. If MG-FF/M (or even MG-FF) had similar effect on Spit like it has on BF, no one would bother with E1.

[notafinger!]

Originally Posted by ZaltysZ

Maybe there is nothing wrong with weapon system, but there is something wrong with DM? Repka server is very good for pointing this, because it is possible to fight against any plane there. If E4 hits another BF109 there, wings break off 8 out of 10 times. If E4 hits Spit, Spit gets damage in various parts, but still continues to fly and even soaks another 1-2 bursts of MG-FF/M before it crashes due to control damage or pilot death. It is easier and faster to kill pilot with tungsten rounds, than to kill Spit with mine shells, and that stimulates preference for E1. If MG-FF/M (or even MG-FF) had similar effect on Spit like it has on BF, no one would bother with E1.

Very well said. To go further this is actually a reaction by blue flyers to what red was doing. For a very long time 99% of red was flying Spits exclusively, nobody was using Hurricanes. Since Spit wings absorb 20mm shells like a sponge some blue pilots, including myself, changed their tactics to something that would be more effective against Spitfires. If you can't kill the machine you had to kill the pilot. Considering how vulnerable the 109 is to cooling system, engine, fuel tank, and even pilot damage much of what is being said in this thread is just sour grapes.