To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[Feuerfalke]

So what do you really want Bearcat?

Do you just want to advertise people, because you once were against these mods and are now enthusiastic all over?

Or do you want a general amnesty for the modders, so they can post and advertise their mods freely? Then look at this thread and that it was not locked, though there were even direct attacks against 1C and MG, because modders fixed things that they couldn't and even you mentioned this, no matter that you tried to make it look more friendly then some others, probably out of some rest of remaining respect?

Or do you want Oleg to officially accept and support the crack?


Don't get me wrong. As I posted a lot of times before, I really have respect for a lot of hard work put into this, but it is your message, that I can't take. Just because some people put a lot of effort in something to achieve things that you expected from official sides for years doesn't change the fact that it is all based upon an illegal crack and that a lot of people fell offended and irritated by these discussions.
If the MonaLisa was stolen from the Louvre, repainted in 3 years work, her fainted smile turned into a real one, her breasts upgraded and hair styled, reworked with modern techniques and published officially for free, would you think that's a good idea either, just because there was so much work put into it and it's now available for free?

Superficial equation, I know, but true in 2 things:
1. Something based on a bad thing isn't good because a lot of good people worked on it and some people like it.
2. The only sense this whole thread has is to keep this worn out topic on top of the list, but what you don't see is, that it damages your intentions a lot more than it could have ever helped to put this on THIS forums.

[LEXX]

FFalke::

So what do you really want Bearcat?

I have not bothered to ask Oleg to add "some" AAA mods to his sim, although I would think it a great idea from the narrow standpoint of customer immersion -- other real concerns aside. But then, I won't tell others not to ask either, unless they are snotty about it, and neither Bear nor Crash have been.

Falke: a friendly tip for webboard behavior -- You can read Bear's poasts if you wish to know what Bear "really wants."

The Mona Lisa parable is a howl, and easily worthy of computer gamer forums.

[Feuerfalke]

Well, Bearcat posted we have to accept it, because it's there and won't go away.

As you can see this thread still exists, so he's at least running in open doors. The pure fact that there is no official invitation to discuss these things here doesn't change that.

What strikes me is the argumentation, though. Just because something is there doesn't mean we have to like it.

[LEXX]

ElAurens, that was my attempt at humour -- like the quip "we are all keynesians now" often attributed to Nixon although some say Friedman originated this. After the fact, I can see how it could be none too obvious.

I see you still carry the burden of bitterness and are still Whining about me molding another sim we have been assuming you are not playing.

[LEXX]

Falke, I don't think Bear said we have to accept unauthorized mods in our sims. But I can see how we have to accept the visible fact that the modding is there -and- the fact that it won't go away.

I don't think Bear ever said "falke" has to or is required to like unauthorized modding. Shucks, Oleg probably doesn't like it. Granted, it is said on the forums that Oleg knew about the hack several years ago, yet he did not prevent the hack from becoming widely used after the end of the sim's development.


Falke::

Well, Bearcat posted we have to accept it, because it's there and won't go away.
:
:
:
What strikes me is the argumentation, though. Just because something is there doesn't mean we have to like it.

[Feuerfalke]

Then I even less understand why there's so much fuzz about it? If it's just to accept it's there, well, we wouldn't discuss here, if we didn't know, so that can't be the goal.

So, just for my slow personal understanding: Is this to advertise on the existence of the mods? Well, if that's the case, then this thread is by far the poorest way to do so IMHO.
People who are interested in modding the game won't need much help to click the various links on www.google.de


But either way, I think it's a bad choice to discuss this HERE. IMHO this campaign is like advertising on alcohol or cigarettes on a blue-cross-site. Sure you may find some people interested, but you piss off a lot of other people (as you can see in this thread) and it's the best way to not show respect towards the people who made the game and maintain this forum. And even in Bearcats post above, intentionally or not, it's very easy to understand like "look what the mods have done, what MG didn't do for years" and that attitude won't help anybody, including mod-makers, MG, the community or BoB.

Even what you just posted, Lexx, that MG knew about the crack and didn't intervene is easily seen as a bad support for this game, incompetence from MG and 1C to handle such a situation and act accordingly. And after all the stuff that was given to us for free, is that really your message?


Again, just to make that perfectly clear: I am not against the mods themselves, but against the way it is discussed and promoted. IMHO the old words "The end justifies the means." completely backfires on the Mods, 1C and BoB the longer this discussion goes. And THAT is the only point to this discussion, because it failed on anything else, the moment this was posted on the publishers site.

[LEXX]

Falke::

Even what you just posted, Lexx, that MG knew about the crack and didn't intervene is easily seen as a bad support for this game, incompetence from MG and 1C to handle such a situation and act accordingly. And after all the stuff that was given to us for free, is that really your message?

I'm not sure. Its something that I read on the forums so your guess or conspiracy theory is as good as anybody's. You will have to go back to re-read what I poasted before quoting me again at this forum. That seems to be a behavioral problem you are having with others as well, at least in this thread, and leaves others wondering what your "message" is.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Falke::
I'm not sure. Its something that I read on the forums so your guess or conspiracy theory is as good as anybody's. You will have to go back to re-read what I poasted before quoting me again at this forum. That seems to be a behavioral problem you are having with others as well, at least in this thread, and leaves others wondering what your "message" is.

Your Quote from a page before: "Granted, it is said on the forums that Oleg knew about the hack several years ago, yet he did not prevent the hack from becoming widely used after the end of the sim's development."

As I said, it's not that difficult to interpret this comment as a direct critics on Oleg and his lack of ability to do something against it. I don't think you wrote that due to my behavioral problems? You surely had a message and I just asked myself what message was and how people interpret messages like that, quoted or originally written by yourself.

[LEXX]

Falke::

As I said, it's not that difficult to interpret this comment as a direct critics on Oleg and his lack of ability to do something against it. I don't think you wrote that due to my behavioral problems? You surely had a message and I just asked myself what message was and how people interpret messages like that, quoted or originally written by yourself.

There are other interpretations. The most comedic was made by hysterical anti-mod anonymous public server players at the unmoderated ubi forums claiming that Oleg allowed the hack mods to "kill" FB to push customers to BoB And Beyond.

I found it funny since it would theoretically push a small minority of anonymous public server people to the new sim, leaving the private server players and the larger offline customer base to enjoy FB modding. The claim doesn't make sense, unless FB is purely an Online Pay-To-Play sim with no independent private servers. But then, these hysterical anonymous public server players always considered FB to be a pure Online sim with no independent private servers. So the claim *does* make sense when viewed with that fogged perspective.

[Pike]

Well, Like it or not it has certainly breathed new life into an older Sim and I suspect it will continue for some time yet.
One point though.....I think that given Oleg's resources and time constraints....now we have people all over the world simultaneously producing new maps etc which Oleg's team would have neither the time, people nor money to do in such a short timespan. I'm sure if he could have done them he would have eventually. If I were him I would just be quietly contented about my achievements and legacy......I can see one day in the future when there will be statues dedicated to him as the founder of modern flight sims if his work continues at this quality and rate.
I also don't quite understand the view on cheating, because you only play with your friends whom, I would have thought, would have no wish to cheat you. So any 'cheaters' would end up banned and with no-one to play with anyway.
Best regards,
Pike.