Updated RAF FMs in 1.07.18301

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

So a "5 minute" limit doesn't mean it will only overheat after 5 minutes, it may overheat earlier and actions must be taken to prevent this. It also may overheat later or not at all and there won't be any trouble during this flight if the engine is new. There might be trouble in the next flight or you are grounded because of required engine overhaul

I completely agree and I am aware of what you wrote. I guess the time limit implemented within the sim is just for the game purpose, so people won't abuse it unreasonably. I don't know if that's good or bad or if there is a better way of modelling this.

My comments on the actual usage in the sim had nothing to do with the real life, basically I shared what we found out with our Squad while testing these new planes shortly.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

You may run the engine on "5 minute all out" setting for 1 hours without overheating, however this would reduce the time between overhauls considerably (maybe to 20 hours compared to 100 hours).
On the other hand you may run the engine on "30 minute climb" setting for 10 minutes and damage the engine due to overheating, because radiator was shut and speed was to slow.

Or in the case of the p38 it would run forever without overheating but exceeding recommended time limits would stuff the turbocharger with the consequent drastic reduction in power.

Clearly in a game "overheating" is used to represent a wide range of engine faults not all of which manifested in real life as actual overheating. This applies to many FM and DM scenarios, you cannot model everything.

As a result if you want to claim your favorite ride has been nobbled (regardless of what plane is) its not to hard to find some area in any sim where the simplified modelling means a mismatch with historical data.

[Crumpp]

Clearly in a game "overheating" is used to represent a wide range of engine faults not all of which manifested in real life as actual overheating. This applies to many FM and DM scenarios, you cannot model everything.

Exactly.

The most thing they can simulate is the mindset of piloting an aircraft. That means maintaining a scan of the instruments and operating the aircraft by the POH limits.

IMHO, CloD does this better than any game before it.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Exactly.

The most thing they can simulate is the mindset of piloting an aircraft. That means maintaining a scan of the instruments and operating the aircraft by the POH limits.

IMHO, CloD does this better than any game before it.

I agree, but the POH limits should be modelled correctly. I can see they can't model everything and the engine damage is simplified (and overaggresive for the gaming reasons) and I have no problem with that. Even though the relative performance now seems to be much better than even before and maybe the boost gauges showing incorrect values are purely cosmetic issue. This is still subject to change and I am not about to do any proper testing just yet, but I would say that most of the RAF flyers welcome the current beta. All it needs now is fixing the instruments (if that's really the issue) so correct figures are being shown, fixing the incosnistencies within RAF fighter mixture control including the necessity to go Auto Lean in order to be able to use +12lbs. at 3000rpm. And include similar limitation for DB 601 Notleistung so people won't abuse it like I do.

Osprey - Ernst seems to be just a frustrated LW pilot that was outflown by some Spitfire pilot, there is nothing wrong with that. His post is interesting and I understand what bothers him (I don't like whining either), but he is obviously wrong in his assumptions.

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by Ernst

There is so much misunderstanding here. I remember seeing a SPITFIRE Ia manual stating that 12 lbs time limits were 3 minutes.

Now you come here and says its 5 minutes for the IA. There is another manual stating 5 minutes but that was for the IIa i guess. There is so many that use general desinformation and try to using data from other aircraft (IIA) to provide performance of others (IA). Or comparing the best data from one ac with worst of others, or using extra arguments and aproximation much beyond the data to prove their points. The data should talk by themselves with minimal interference of the interpreters.

I do not known but my opinion is that guys complaining about sptifires are noobies because yesterday i found =AN=Felipe's spitfire at 6.5 K and we need 3 109s to shot down him.

The fight lasted almost 10 minutes. The spitfire IIA totally overperformed the 109 high there making loops and barrels rolls while the 109 barely can climb or fly level. If in RL was that way the 109s would have no chance since the BoB fight occured mostly at high altitude, and we known that they were very well matched if we compared the kill/ratios against each other. Someone can say? The Germans have more acs? Ok if you consider the bombers. But fighter vs. fighter they were matched and the british were flying over its territory, the germans had teh fuel problem etc... The truth is, the SPIT accutually in sim is very capable aircraft and certainly well matched with the 109s....

If you have the spits like you want, overperfoming the 109s in every aspect the blue players would give up. Maybe the reds ll feel better historical accuracy shoting 109s at will, killing the 109s in 10 by 1 kill ratio, and flying only against IAs and germans drones. This happened in some IL2 servers after last mods. The servers are killed. If you are blue you have to be extremely sadomasoquist to fly that ultrapack servers. The multiple fms, each one with its own biased fms for one side or other completely destroyed the game...

What do you want in a simplistic way is an all win spitfire model who can zip zap, hang on the prop, barrels rolls like humming bird, rocket climbing, outstanding climbing and energy retention etc... I think you should think yourselves, you are really good pilots? My believe is that you believe spit is that mess because you do not accept defeat and have no humildity to recognize your own fault in your failure.You think you can only be defeated if fighting 3 or 4 109s. If you got defeated by 1 then the game is cheating.

Once i shot down a guy by surprise and he complained: "You shot me down because you got me by surprise. I would expect a chance to fight" And i answered: "Then you suppose i would give you a chance. You are in a spit."

The guys here complain about the spit. I go online and see a complete different situation: Man the spits are very agile, once the pilot sees you and are not a complete noobie is very difficult to put your guns in it, mainly if you are alone. Sometimes they start to whirlwind down there, the only thing they need do to is to pull the elevator as they. They have not to think in a strategy to escape, think about energy, force the adversary to lose their initial energy to after escape in a dive, etc they have just to turn in and endless whirlwinding... So simplistic and ridiculous... However i just accept the performance that i have in the 109 and fly with my brains... Man, is this guys playing the same sim than me?

just my point...

my be the devs would develop two versions of the sim. One for the british commowealth and another for the rest of the world.

Very good post Ernst. I say Amen to all that.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Very good post Ernst. I say Amen to all that.

yeah I tried to write some paltry thing of my own, but ernst pretty much summed it up. I well flown spit Boosting Is a very very hard plane to fight. It was said that a well flown spit could dance around the sky, and that is probably true, the Issue to me is though...that the games spit is too easy to fly, It rolls far too well and has ungodly E retention. you really can't stall it at full power unless you do something drastic...and the Elevator/Ailerons exhibit perfect harmony, unlike real life where the elevator should be more sensitive.

I think If we actually make the Spit a challenge to fly like every plane should be on the edge we would solve our problems

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Ernst

There is so much misunderstanding here. I remember seeing a SPITFIRE Ia manual stating that 12 lbs time limits were 3 minutes.

Now you come here and says its 5 minutes for the IA. There is another manual stating 5 minutes but that was for the IIa i guess. There is so many that use general desinformation and try to using data from other aircraft (IIA) to provide performance of others (IA). Or comparing the best data from one ac with worst of others, or using extra arguments and aproximation much beyond the data to prove their points. The data should talk by themselves with minimal interference of the interpreters.

I do not known but my opinion is that guys complaining about sptifires are noobies because yesterday i found =AN=Felipe's spitfire at 6.5 K and we need 3 109s to shot down him.

The fight lasted almost 10 minutes. The spitfire IIA totally overperformed the 109 high there making loops and barrels rolls while the 109 barely can climb or fly level. If in RL was that way the 109s would have no chance since the BoB fight occured mostly at high altitude, and we known that they were very well matched if we compared the kill/ratios against each other. Someone can say? The Germans have more acs? Ok if you consider the bombers. But fighter vs. fighter they were matched and the british were flying over its territory, the germans had teh fuel problem etc... The truth is, the SPIT accutually in sim is very capable aircraft and certainly well matched with the 109s....

If you have the spits like you want, overperfoming the 109s in every aspect the blue players would give up. Maybe the reds ll feel better historical accuracy shoting 109s at will, killing the 109s in 10 by 1 kill ratio, and flying only against IAs and germans drones. This happened in some IL2 servers after last mods. The servers are killed. If you are blue you have to be extremely sadomasoquist to fly that ultrapack servers. The multiple fms, each one with its own biased fms for one side or other completely destroyed the game...

What do you want in a simplistic way is an all win spitfire model who can zip zap, hang on the prop, barrels rolls like humming bird, rocket climbing, outstanding climbing and energy retention etc... I think you should think yourselves, you are really good pilots? My believe is that you believe spit is that mess because you do not accept defeat and have no humildity to recognize your own fault in your failure.You think you can only be defeated if fighting 3 or 4 109s. If you got defeated by 1 then the game is cheating.

Once i shot down a guy by surprise and he complained: "You shot me down because you got me by surprise. I would expect a chance to fight" And i answered: "Then you suppose i would give you a chance. You are in a spit."

The guys here complain about the spit. I go online and see a complete different situation: Man the spits are very agile, once the pilot sees you and are not a complete noobie is very difficult to put your guns in it, mainly if you are alone. Sometimes they start to whirlwind down there, the only thing they need do to is to pull the elevator as they. They have not to think in a strategy to escape, think about energy, force the adversary to lose their initial energy to after escape in a dive, etc they have just to turn in and endless whirlwinding... So simplistic and ridiculous... However i just accept the performance that i have in the 109 and fly with my brains... Man, is this guys playing the same sim than me?

just my point...

my be the devs would develop two versions of the sim. One for the british commowealth and another for the rest of the world.

People should note that Ernst was one of those in the tiny minority who voted against 100 octane fuelling in bug 174. As a result I take what he says with a pinch of salt.

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by Osprey

People should note that Ernst was one of those in the tiny minority who voted against 100 octane fuelling in bug 174. As a result I take what he says with a pinch of salt.

Lol tht's all your theory of 100oct available in fighter during BoB that has to be taken "with a pinch of salt".

Your way of re-writting the big and the small history is remarkable ! Wew

[Osprey]

.....riiiiight.........

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Lol tht's all your theory of 100oct available in fighter during BoB that has to be taken "with a pinch of salt".

Your way of re-writting the big and the small history is remarkable ! Wew

Enough has been said to this topic, the evidence is overhwelming, but you can't please everyone, feel free to believe what suits you best.

Having the 100 octane fighters at least is both historically correct and good for the game.

As for the actual FMs - shall we report the current issues or is it OK to rely that the devs will get it absolutely right in the final release?