Friday Update, April 13, 2012

[CWMV]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Even Hartmann got shot down a few times...

Totally agree with your post, except this part.
He wasn't shot down, but had a habit of running into pieces of his kills......something like 14 times
To quote the man himself "I was never another pilots victory".

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

It is, through non rose tinted glasses, widely acknowlegded that the most superior fighter, by a margin, in 1940 was the 109. Later in the war the arms race sees the spit and 109 leap frogging each other however many many other factors must be taken into consideration. Its simply NOT who had the best plane won. As you mentioned - orders for one hampered the 109 driver late in BoB.

Yeah I don't get these guys that seem to believe that the 109 was better than the Spit at practically everything. If that were the case, which it patently isn't, then that means that the 109 pilots must've been crap to lose with such fantastic machines But we hear from the same people how good the LW pilots were compared to everyone else - something doesn't add up.............

..............and that's where blaming Goering comes in isn't it.....


You are correct Farber, the 109 was superior to the Spitfire, until the CPS and 100 octane was shoved in it (May/June 1940). Then it was all down to the engineers.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Hooves

I'm sorry but you have it absolutely backwards. In historical context the RAF actually had an advantage as the LW were ordered to stay with the bombers negating their boom and zoom advantage. In a video game with unrestricted
ROE the 109's make mints meat of the RAF birds as they can do whatever they want to. In an online game arena with no orders. Realism falls on it's face, with one side constantly getting beat for the sake of historical flight model. So tell ya what I'll continue to try to get a height advantage if you 109 drivers never stray from your bombers. After all we are being "realistic" aren't we?

Depends a bit on the time frame, eh? Only the later stages of the BoB were the 109s tied to the bombers. Then, however, I agree.

Looking forward to the patch, I have an itch in my finger.

[BigC208]

Originally Posted by Hooves

I'm sorry but you have it absolutely backwards. In historical context the RAF actually had an advantage as the LW were ordered to stay with the bombers negating their boom and zoom advantage. In a video game with unrestricted
ROE the 109's make mints meat of the RAF birds as they can do whatever they want to. In an online game arena with no orders. Realism falls on it's face, with one side constantly getting beat for the sake of historical flight model. So tell ya what I'll continue to try to get a height advantage if you 109 drivers never stray from your bombers. After all we are being "realistic" aren't we?

Don't be sorry, you're right. I dont play a whole lot online. Especially not in historical scenario's. The 109's hands were tied by Goerings orders but the BoB was not lost because of this tactical oversight.
I've read many accounts of RAF Squadrons being jumped by 109's because they arrived thousands of feet below the Germans, despite radar. 109's closely escorting bombers are still going to mess you up if you show up 4000 ft too low. This happend so often that Squadrons would add 5-6 thousand feet to their assigned altitude when being vectored or adjust course for better positioning. What I tried to convey was that "IF" the scenarios and tactics online where followed historically, the 109 would be superior(as it is now and will be even more so after the patch). What Joe sixpack actually does online I have no say over. Most of these things turn into airquake and have, indeed, nothing to do with what happened in the summer and fall of 1940.

What I'm worried about is if you try to balance the planesets performance for game balance sake you cannot ever create a realistic scenario. At some point historical scenario's will be part of the online game by mission design and the real weak and strong points will come out and be utilised. Realistic tactics worked pretty good in the old air warrior days where efforts where made by participating squads to keep it real. If you were asigned to protect your bombers, that's whay you did. They tried to lure us down where they performed better or got the bombers uncovered but we stayed high or B&Z'd and fought on our own terms. Worked well in 40 or 44 scenario's. Maybe a pipedream but I keep my hopes up that the airquake mentality lessens when more squads come over to Il2CoD from Il2 when the game is patched.

[Insuber]

Hi Luthier

- have you fixed the sound radar? Approaching a red fighter from behind unnoticed is quite impossible today.
- Also, has the mirror of Spit/Hurri been fixed ?