Oleg and Team.

[tater]

In the case of the maps, that's simply not true, bearcat, with all due respect.

The map is the map. If anything, the stock maps were molecular, and the new maps are "atomic." That goes for modder built as well as the "official" player map making teams doing stuff like Burma/Slovakia/Bessarabia, etc. They are simply better in every way than the 1C/RRG maps. Period.

It's not because they are not limited by system specs, either. It's map-size independent. The new maps use some techniques not used (possibly not available, certainly on the original il-2) like the use of (free) SRTM data for elevation maps. What they also have is attention to detail, and a little lateral thinking.

Ian's maps are better, for example, because he's damn skilled, and he cares.

The stock maps, and PF maps for the most part simply do not show that anyone cared at some level. Copy and pasted airfields, for example. I always assumed that only a few airfield types were possible, not that the only limit on airfield appearance was bothering to make them look the way you want. Look at the towns, too. Modders built an app to populate the terrain tile that have streets with buildings along the streets instead of sort of randomly placed.

The bones are GREAT, no one argues that. Really, top notch!

But for map making it is exactly analogous to mission/campaign creation, it's entirely the product of user skill and attention to detail, nothing else.

tater

[Rama]

Originally Posted by tater

That goes for modder built as well as the "official" player map making teams doing stuff like Burma/Slovakia/Bessarabia, etc. They are simply better in every way than the 1C/RRG maps. .../...

And takes a lot of time to built.... except for "simple" terrain like for example PTO or desert.
Maps like Kurland, Norway, Burma, Bessarabia, etc.... took several hundreds of hours to be completed (not even counting testing and corrections). For Slovakia, we know it's a several thousands of hours.

Let's imagine M:1C would have decided to do all the map with the quality work of Slovakia. Because they're used to the tools and pro, it could have took them "only" a thousand of hours per map... with around 12 maps to start, that's around 6 years of man-work (so 3 peoples working full time during 2 years).
.... this in addition to all the rest (graphic engine, planes, FM, AI, etc, etc, etc...)

You must remember that M:1C is a very small team... and choices had to be done about priorities. Maps were probably not ultra-high on the priority scale... especially since they allready took a lot of time to choose the solution (those who have followed IL2 dev before the release remember that different options were envisaged for the map making... including the use of satellite image textures, who was abandonned because too ressource-heavy for the PC of that time), leaving a few time to developp the map tools and then the map themthelves.
After the release they where allways overloaded... that's why Oleg considered to give the map tools to some choosen external teams.

I have no doubt that now the code is cracked, external teams can do some excellent work with map making... especially in low-populated areas (PTO, desert, etc). But I doubt very much they will complete "slovakia-style" maps on european areas in less than 2/3 years (it took 3 years to a very dedicated team to do the Slovakia map).
... In any case, I wont fly with any of the mods... I'm now waiting for SoW and KotS.

Still, I agree that PF was released too early, with a work that was mostly unfinished and that the choice of maps was far to be perfect.