303 sound

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by robtek

That would be a milkmaid calculation

At first the guns don't fire synchronized, so the soundwaves sometimes add up, somtimes they cancel each other out.

It would be louder as a single gun, but a more constant noise, like ripping texture.

I think you have a pretty confused concept of sound waves. I personally don't know of any "don't fire synchronised" setup, once you squeeze the trigger they all go together, but even if it wasn't the case, with the insane rates of fire these guns had (the RAF ones had modified barrels and bolts for a higher ROF), you could hardly tell the difference whether they all shot with the same or not.

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I think you have a pretty confused concept of sound waves. I personally don't know of any "don't fire synchronised" setup, once you squeeze the trigger they all go together, but even if it wasn't the case, with the insane rates of fire these guns had (the RAF ones had modified barrels and bolts for a higher ROF), you could hardly tell the difference whether they all shot with the same or not.

I can't follow you here, first a slight and then unprofessional common places which doesn't prove anything.

I answered to the opinion that the sound should increase eight-fold, and you?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by robtek

I can't follow you here, first a slight and then unprofessional common places which doesn't prove anything.

I answered to the opinion that the sound should increase eight-fold, and you?

Sorry man, but the answer you gave is not correct and misleading, hence my post. There is a lot of this going on in this forum, it would be better to keep things as accurate as possible for the sake of the sim and people's knowledge.

[robtek]

It would behave you well if you could point out which part you assume i've got wrong and how so.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by robtek

It would behave you well if you could point out which part you assume i've got wrong and how so.

your assumption

At first the guns don't fire synchronized, so the soundwaves sometimes add up, somtimes they cancel each other out.

It would be louder as a single gun, but a more constant noise, like ripping texture.

is simply wrong, soundwaves won't cancel each other out, they will just make things louder. Regardless of the synchronisation, the rate of fire is so high that the sounds will superimpose and create a concerto for .303, especially because they're sitting so close to the pilot.

[winny]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Sorry man, but the answer you gave is not correct and misleading, hence my post. There is a lot of this going on in this forum, it would be better to keep things as accurate as possible for the sake of the sim and people's knowledge.

OK then in the interest of correctness..

You said " I think you have a pretty confused concept of sound waves."
His understanding of soundwaves seems ok to me.
Soundwaves can cancel each other out if they are the same amplitude, if they are similar you get disruption to the waves which can mean either an increase or decrease in volume. I'm a sound engineer by trade. It's like when speakers are out of phase.

You also said.. "I personally don't know of any "don't fire synchronised" setup"
I'm pretty sure that British brownings were not synchronised. They were fired pneumatically which meant they couldn't synchronise them.

Aircraft with synchronised guns fired them electrically. I think the 109 was like this but my 109 knowledge is limited.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by winny

Soundwaves can cancel each other out if they are the same amplitude, if they are similar you get disruption to the waves which can mean either an increase or decrease in volume. I'm a sound engineer by trade. It's like when speakers are out of phase.

The wave forms need to be opposite phase (hope thats the right phrase) which would be extremely unlikely, So for every quiet spot there would be correstponding loud spot where the wave form built each other up.

Over eight gun I would think it would average itself out.

Originally Posted by winny

You also said.. "I personally don't know of any "don't fire synchronised" setup"
I'm pretty sure that British brownings were not synchronised. They were fired pneumatically which meant they couldn't syncronise them.

Aircraft with syncronised guns fired them electrically. I think the 109 was like this but my 109 knowledge is limited.

Even slight mechanical difference between the guns would cause a variation in the rate of fire.

Are the German guns fired on a pulse that would allow them to syncronise rounds or does it just opperated a solenoid that moves the shear that restrains the bolt?

Cheers!

[robtek]

As the guns don't fire synchronized there will be of course parts of the sound cancelled out, parts added up and parts filling the "free"spaces.
That is what i meant, the sound doesn't increase 8-fold, it increases, but without actual measurement one can't say how much.

[pupaxx]

you simply can't algebraically sum two sound pressure levels. a sound pressure level L1=50db + another sound pressure level L2=50db isn't equal to a sound pressure level of 100db.
The mathematics law governing this phenomenon is on logarithmic base.
The increment should be minor of 0,5db
Cheers

[winny]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

The wave forms need to be opposite phase (hope thats the right phrase) which would be extremely unlikely, So for every quiet spot there would be correstponding loud spot where the wave form built each other up.

Over eight gun I would think it would average itself out.



Even slight mechanical difference between the guns would cause a variation in the rate of fire.

Are the German guns fired on a pulse that would allow them to syncronise rounds or does it just opperated a solenoid that moves the shear that restrains the bolt?

Cheers!

Yeah, opposite phase is the right term . To completley cancel out it would need opposite phase and the exact same frequency. If you've got 8 guns all firing at the same rate at some point in the room you'll get opposite phase somewhere. (Because the sound spreads out in a circular way, unlike speakers) but it would be hard to notice. But you'd get some cancellation, and probably some amplification somewhere else. In short, it would sound messy!


I have no idea about how exactly synchronised guns work, but they all recieved the same electrical pulse to fire at the same time, with pneumatics they just carry on from where they were in the cycle.