A new article in SimHQ about Cod

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

I'm not sure I'd call it an early release, after six years in the basement. It was more like making it get a haircut and a job.

Of course it was a early release, there can't be any question about that!

If a developer strives for perfection, changing things, adding things, making it possible to include future developements, he will never finish as there are always things to improve.

The problem, imho, was that there was nobody who set a timeline, who said : freeze developement now and debug the actual state to get it publishable.

If they had stopped developing on their own accord and started debugging all the bad pr wouldn't have happened.

My opinion to that.

[Revvin]

Another developer - Dave Kaemmer at iRacing had this to say in response to some critics of their new tyre modelling which some felt should not have been released when it was:

When will this model be finished, and why is it being so hyped before it is? I started making and learning about racing simulations in 1987, when I started writing Indy 500 for EA. If I had not shipped a sim until I was completely happy with it, you would still not have that one, let alone anything I’ve worked on since. Sad to say, but I will die before I’m happy with a sim I’m creating. And you want it that way. And so do I. I think it’s best for everyone, though, if I have to ship things out from time to time, even though there are ways to improve it.

We demand greater better graphics, more realistic performance, greater accuracy on cockpits etc, I'm not a sim developer but appreciate the huge task at hand. Thats not to say I'm excusing the state IL-2:CoD was released in, it should not have been released at that point in my opinion as an end user. The SimHQ article smacks of being a little bitter they didn't get the interview time other sites did on the run up to release or a review copy for an exclusive review, lost the chance of an exclusive because Europe got the game first.

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by Kongo-Otto

I bet with you, that 99% of the Forum users didn't even saw the F-16.

i bet you that 99% didt saw anything But the f16.

[gflinch]

Here is something that keeps coming up in my mind that hasn't been adressed yet, that I have found.

What was the team doing for 7 years?? I know it's something that takes time, however we saw lots of screenshots over the years that really looked promising and it looked like progress was being made. There where a few times that the sim was pushed back, this happens, and usuallys for the better.

BUT, how is it that so much could be broken after all this time of them working on it? We are talking about fundamental things like sound, graphic glitches (sli), etc. Now we are told that these major game engin parts are being rewritten and are given a relatively short time frame for these new parts to be released (a month or two IS very short for a ground up rebuild of key game parts).

I really love this game, even at it's current state.

But personally I would rather the devs not say much of anything, than give us so many stories their credibility comes into question and we don't know what to believe.

I can only imagine that there have been a lot of internal personnel and financial problems over the years of the games development.

In some respects I guess I'm glad we have the game at all, someone was able to keep the project alive, over it's long dev time.

I guess it could have been worse: ie Derrick Smart, if any of you remember that name and his project.

[flyingblind]

It might have been in developement for seven years but I doubt any company could afford or justify paying a full time team to do nothing else but develope such a niche game. I would not be suprised if many doing work on CloD were doing it alongside other more profitable work to maintain some sort of cash flow. It also seems clear from what we have now most of the time spent has gone into developing the incredibly detailed objects. It must have taken months of man hours to fully create each cockpit we have alone. The biggest problems seem to be in the game engine itself which is exactly the area where the skills of the developers would be more profitably used else where leaving a lot still to be sorted when CloD was finally released. Just my thought.

Originally Posted by flyingblind

It might have been in developement for seven years but I doubt any company could afford or justify paying a full time team to do nothing else but develope such a niche game. I would not be suprised if many doing work on CloD were doing it alongside other more profitable work to maintain some sort of cash flow. It also seems clear from what we have now most of the time spent has gone into developing the incredibly detailed objects. It must have taken months of man hours to fully create each cockpit we have alone. The biggest problems seem to be in the game engine itself which is exactly the area where the skills of the developers would be more profitably used else where leaving a lot still to be sorted when CloD was finally released. Just my thought.

Most of those cockpits were finished back in 2006, personally i don't think much work was done until after Luthier took over, Oleg had given up on the project and was more interested in taking pics of girls backsides. Oleg wanted his money and helped in the whole deception that this would be the best flight sim ever, when you think back to the development days the effort they went to keep us in the dark about how bad this sim would be and to have us believe that Oleg was still working his nuts off when he was long long gone was quite extraordinary. The faked 'leaked' video of CLOD running smoothly as to be up there with the moon landings!!

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by pupo162

i bet you that 99% didt saw anything But the f16.

There was a plane in that photo?

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by r0bc

Its both funny and sad watching people try to protect this thing like its one of there kids.

It is, but the majority of overzealous posters are on the other camp, trying to shoot it down like it's the spawn of the devil, that's funny too.

Most here don't have a problem with people being critical, what they have a problem with is people being intolerant of other opinions. Does it work/not work well enough for me? Ok, i just give my outlook on things and that's it, i'm not going to try and ram my opinion down other people's throats.

It's the "game is broken and you're an idiot if you like it" mentality that annoys people. Trust me, if you saw the comments i get on reported posts and my PMs since i started moderating, you'd be able to easily reach the same conclusion: the vast majority of the community is comprised of very reasonable people, it's just that they are not usually the vocal ones

It's not what we say, it's how we say it that carries potential for bothering people and boring them senseless.

There are many ways to draw attention to flaws in the game, but most people are too bored to do it correctly so they just vent and that is the boring way which naturally tends to be sidelined, ignored and ridiculed.

I have no problem with anyone dishing out the verbal hurt, they'll just have to live with the consequences of their actions and it's a conscious choice they make on their own

Originally Posted by gflinch

Here is something that keeps coming up in my mind that hasn't been adressed yet, that I have found.

What was the team doing for 7 years?? I know it's something that takes time, however we saw lots of screenshots over the years that really looked promising and it looked like progress was being made. There where a few times that the sim was pushed back, this happens, and usuallys for the better.

BUT, how is it that so much could be broken after all this time of them working on it? We are talking about fundamental things like sound, graphic glitches (sli), etc. Now we are told that these major game engin parts are being rewritten and are given a relatively short time frame for these new parts to be released (a month or two IS very short for a ground up rebuild of key game parts).

I really love this game, even at it's current state.

But personally I would rather the devs not say much of anything, than give us so many stories their credibility comes into question and we don't know what to believe.

I can only imagine that there have been a lot of internal personnel and financial problems over the years of the games development.

In some respects I guess I'm glad we have the game at all, someone was able to keep the project alive, over it's long dev time.

I guess it could have been worse: ie Derrick Smart, if any of you remember that name and his project.

I think the remake of graphics is a big task to do in such a small time. My theory is that it was probably baking in the oven for some time, they just had to put it on hold due to the forced release and having to focus on band-aid patches early on and now that things are somewhat better they are going back on it.

Something like being working on it say since January, pausing from March till the last patch and picking up from where they left. Then, when things were looking like the new system is actually good and will work, they go ahead and announce it. I don't think they would intentionally drop a bucket of sharkbait here and jump in the pool if what they announced wasn't almost finished and they weren't sure it would work.

I mean, we get the same "how long till next update/they can't do it/we're abandoned, hold my hand" threads before the previous ETA is even met every single time, imagine what would happen if they said "hey guys, we have new graphics coming up" and it took 5 months for it to happen

[gflinch]

Blackdog, thanks for the reply, good points on timing etc.

Really its not our right that we HAVE to know anyhow, we purchase cars for thousands and really dont know anything about the designers and engineers that worked on them. And we trust our lives with them!

The hand holding that is expected by some, is true (again refer to my car analogy).

I guess it's all about the surprise release (to all and presumably the devs too) that there has been a lot of backpedaling from the devs.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Well I never made any flight sim's in my life, but I do know that CLOD is frustratingly bad, and that Luthier has told more whoppers than Pinocchio, and continues to do so.... 'community manager my arse'!.

Ever stop to think how difficult it might be to get someone to agree to manage the communications in this community - at a salary commensurate with the actual profit potential of a flight sim?

I can imagine how the interviews have gone:

Luthier: "Look, we can start you at salary of 20K per year, and your job will be to manage communications with our customers, in a positive manner. I wish I could pay you more, but our industry is based around the PC market and simulations are not currently in a growth spurt. All of us here at Maddox games, are really working out of passion for flight sims. Look, if you have a positive impact on sales through your communication skills with our clients, your salary is certain to grow."

Applicant: "Well that's not a lot of money. Tell me about the benefits?"

Luthier: "Standard benefits for Moscow - no health care, no retirement - but possible in the future".

Applicant: "Can you tell me a little more about your customers, the community?"

Luthier: "Sure, in fact I can do better - here are links to our forums here at 1C, our publishers forum at Ubi and another at SIMHQ. Why don't you spend a little time going through user posts at these sites. It will give you a good idea of our customer base, their issues and the general nature of the Combat Flight sim community"

Applicant: "Sure. I'll spend a few days reviewing the customer base - and I'll get back to you, thank you so much for this opportunity."

After the applicant departs the Maddox Games office......

Office Manager: "Well Luthier, how did the interview go?"

Luthier: "I don't know, I told him the same as all the others and sent him off to review the forums...."

Office Manager: "You sent him to the forums! Luthier I thought we agreed that you would not do that anymore! This is the 67th interview and I can't find anymore fools to take this job, in all of Moscow! Why can't you stop giving them these damn links......!!!"

Luthier: "I know, I know - but we have to be honest with them - they'll eventually have to confront the community anyway..."

Office Manager: "Please stop this insanity Luthier. We've been rejected by every applicant. We can't even get "Lefty" from the old Neoqb to take the job part-time for any amount of money. Look what happened to him. Maybe we could compromise? Send him to our forums but not SIMHQ. Whatever you do, don't send him to SIMHQ and don't tell him the publisher is UBISOFT. OK?"

S!

Gunny