Ethics of pilots fighting for the sides in WWII

[moilami]

Originally Posted by BadAim

Big LOL, I think we just wrote the same thing at the same time, just in different words! (and probably from very different perspectives)

I can tell my perspective is Socratean perspective That is unpolitical seeker of truth. I am specialized in doing philosophical "täsmäiskuja" on various forums on various subjects, if I feel so.

But can you tell how I ruined everything I don't want to ruin stuff I want to make shock and awe strikes on silly illusions, crushing them mercilessly on useless pieces of crap they are based on It is my 2c to make this world better

[moilami]

Alright, back on track.

Now, lets see what you have learned.

I ask you a question are those who fly allied planes in IL-2 better than those who fly Luftwaffe planes?

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by moilami

But can you tell how I ruined everything I don't want to ruin stuff I want to make shock and awe strikes on silly illusions, crushing them mercilessly on useless pieces of crap they are based on It is my 2c to make this world better

Ah, but that is exactly what I meant, for don't we indeed prefer our silly illusions to cold hard reality? In that respect ruining is a good thing. . Again I'm sure we are coming to this issue with vastly different perspectives, and certain language issues, but I think our conclusions don't differ so much as an external inspection might indicate. Keep thinking, Mate.

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by moilami

Alright, back on track.

Now, lets see what you have learned.

I ask you a question are those who fly allied planes in IL-2 better than those who fly Luftwaffe planes?

no.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by BadAim

no.

Agreed.

However, I don't feel right flying for the axis, I've started a few campaigns, and not finished them, I may start some more some day, don't expect I'll finish those either, but you never know. The Fins I don't feel so bad about, but I still don't usually fly for them either.

I don't disrespect the axis pilots, as people have said they probably didn't know what was going on, but one difference between me and them is that I do know what was going on, which is partly why I don't feel right flying for that side.

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

And even today, men do what they are told to do, nothing has changed in the long history of humans. If the ruling party takes it's country to war, then there are few options for the people, both civilian and military.

....and this is the thing that I fear the most, since I have no reason to suppose governments today to be any better that they were yesterday. (as did the founding fathers of my own country......they feared democracy just as much as the crown, and for good reason)

[moilami]

I agree with both of you, flying Allied plane doesn't make one better than one who flies Luftwaffe plane. I have tried to think arguments against that, but I can't invent anything what would make sense.

To say being a Luftwaffe pilot in IL-2 makes you a bad person is not like saying if you have brown skin you suck because people can't chose the colour of their skin as they can chose what they fly. So it is not as stupidly said.

So to say being a Luftwaffe pilot in IL-2 makes you a bad person is like saying if you own WW2 Luger pistol you are a bad person. It is naive, it is stupid, and it doesn't make sense.

Actually the question I asked was very stupid big time. Huh. No matter, never be afraid to ask stupid questions.

Thanks of the discussions and happy Friday! Meet you in the virtual sky.

[Ltbear]

BadAim.

(sorry about English, not native English speaking so trying hard not to be misunderstood)

Im with you, and im one of those he dont hold anything against anyone in the past. I live now, my kids get the future all i can hope is that i have learned from the past. But many around the world need to learn that learning from the past dont meen judging by the past.

People who wount play for a side in a computer game or dont want to visit some country because of some historical past are the worst breed of humans, they are the ones who dont learn from history, but judge by history.

If you judge by history, start looking at your own country first, no matter where you live. Most country`s have some dark spots hanging around.

This is where i could mention the first 50 actions by any of the oooh soo good western countrys ( i live in one of them), but i would rather have people read up on there countrys history than me digging it out.

The brave are those who stand against those who do wrong towards humanity, as a civilian as a soldier as a human...

As a soldier you are caught in a werry bad situation when you se and witness something bad, especialy if its your own buddys who do it. Tell and loose everything, or be silent and keep your comrades, those you fight and die with. No one exept those who have been there knows and feels what im talking about.

Many German soldiers was aware of what was going on. The SS and the (cant remember there name) "clean up groups" that came in after the army had moved on wasent hiding it, the problem is what you do as a soldier with that information, you might get the information the the unit commander, but he knows if he reports it him and maby hes family would end up dead.

But this is not a WW2 German thing. Any wars have these situations, even our days of war (even with western soldiers). But the price for telling is the same, you loose the friends that your life counts on. We outside the combat area will never know what happens, and in some cases i think its the best that way. No war can be fought cleanly, war is a dirty mess, and trying to make somthing like war look "nice" is the worst thing we have ever done....

War is dirty and we have to accept that, if we cant accept that, dont go to war....

Realy hope someone can get sence out of all that lmao...

have a great evening...

LTbear

Actualy this is basic combat psykologi lmao....

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Ltbear

BadAim.

(sorry about English, not native English speaking so trying hard not to be misunderstood)

Im with you, and im one of those he dont hold anything against anyone in the past. I live now, my kids get the future all i can hope is that i have learned from the past. But many around the world need to learn that learning from the past dont meen judging by the past.

People who wount play for a side in a computer game or dont want to visit some country because of some historical past are the worst breed of humans, they are the ones who dont learn from history, but judge by history.

If you judge by history, start looking at your own country first, no matter where you live. Most country`s have some dark spots hanging around.

This is where i could mention the first 50 actions by any of the oooh soo good western countrys ( i live in one of them), but i would rather have people read up on there countrys history than me digging it out.

The brave are those who stand against those who do wrong towards humanity, as a civilian as a soldier as a human...

As a soldier you are caught in a werry bad situation when you se and witness something bad, especialy if its your own buddys who do it. Tell and loose everything, or be silent and keep your comrades, those you fight and die with. No one exept those who have been there knows and feels what im talking about.

Many German soldiers was aware of what was going on. The SS and the (cant remember there name) "clean up groups" that came in after the army had moved on wasent hiding it, the problem is what you do as a soldier with that information, you might get the information the the unit commander, but he knows if he reports it him and maby hes family would end up dead.

But this is not a WW2 German thing. Any wars have these situations, even our days of war (even with western soldiers). But the price for telling is the same, you loose the friends that your life counts on. We outside the combat area will never know what happens, and in some cases i think its the best that way. No war can be fought cleanly, war is a dirty mess, and trying to make somthing like war look "nice" is the worst thing we have ever done....

War is dirty and we have to accept that, if we cant accept that, dont go to war....

Realy hope someone can get sence out of all that lmao...

have a great evening...

LTbear

Actualy this is basic combat psykologi lmao....

Everything you said makes perfectly good sense, more than I care to admit. War is indeed Hell.

[Les]

Edit- Changed my mind, you get that.