Fantastic FW 190 video

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

even if it's a clone the Dodo is a real Dodo....just not the same Dodo.

lol a clone is a clone, biologically indistinguishable

Let's put it in another perspective: would you personally risk to fly such rare and precious machines with the original stock conditions? And please, give me a professional answer, not an "aviator" one (cos otherwise you'd see me trying to fly the Spruce Goose again!).

[bongodriver]

biologically indistinguishable

therefore 'real' but with an unconventional method of being made to be.

is a 'machine' so precious, there are a good selection of real examples of other machines languishing in museums, I don't think any association with an 'ace' is particularily important....starts to get a little like reverence of a weird religious relic, but really I am still half and half on this.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

The Go-229 is in excellent condition. What you see in that photo is not rust, it is glue, grease, and a preservative coating.

The aircraft sits in a climate controlled hanger at the Garber Facility.

Excellent condition?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ap2...eature=related

I don't it was stored that well...

Edit: But this plane is not relevant for this topic as it never was stored in a museum.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

therefore 'real' but with an unconventional method of being made to be.

is a 'machine' so precious, there are a good selection of real examples of other machines languishing in museums, I don't think any association with an 'ace' is particularily important....starts to get a little like reverence of a weird religious relic, but really I am still half and half on this.

why is Amelia Earhart's Loocked Vega more precious than another then? The 'ace' thing is an added value to the fact that the specific plane in question is the most complete, genuine and rare postwar plane known to humanity, other than being the personal ride of a Luftwaffe Ace. If that is not enough I dunno what else you would need to deem it as precious.

IF we still had these, would you fly Udet's Fokker VII? Or Don Gentile's Shangri-La?

Please read the link to the restoration history that I posted above, I'm glad the plane is in the right hands really, cos I think you guys fail to comprehend the value of this machine.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

it's a shame man, I was trying to make a point and that's the same one I've been talking about all the way through. I respect you and would care to read your answer to my post if you have the time (or will).

Yeah, we've been there and I think it just goes in circles now anyways. Saying a Merlin and a DB605 sounds the same...dunno what to make of that. Makes me wonder if you ever visited an airshow. And the heck, hearing a Jumo in flight would be a first in two generations, and you say an Allision does as fine? And if it does not matter to you, then why this focus on correct restaurations? I simply lost you between this and your crime accusations.
Then again this topic seriously is not important enough to put so much energy into it. I think we have a very different understanding what defines value, or how it is expressed.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Once again, you find a FW190 frame, or a Stuka, or a Sturmovik one that is incomplete and can come back to the sky? Cool! But flying such a genuine wartime machine is criminal.

In fact I think those are the only ones you could and should put back in the air(there's a flying il2 btw) - for the sole reason if you display them in this condition it's a sorry show. They never looked like the POS wreck in the corner of the museum.

You can strip, replace the missing parts with modern materials, and there you go - you'll have a nice and safe to fly(!) Warbird.

The A5 recovered from the woods it a typical example of this category.


edit:
What bewulf is talking about must be the emotional part.
Obviously he gets goose skin when looking up into the sky and remembers the fact that this very aircraft was roaring over the battle fields in Russia some 70 years ago.
This not something you can really argue about.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

why is Amelia Earhart's Loocked Vega more precious than another then? The 'ace' thing is an added value to the fact that the specific plane in question is the most complete, genuine and rare postwar plane known to humanity, other than being the personal ride of a Luftwaffe Ace. If that is not enough I dunno what else you would need to deem it as precious.

IF we still had these, would you fly Udet's Fokker VII? Or Don Gentile's Shangri-La?

Please read the link to the restoration history that I posted above, I'm glad the plane is in the right hands really, cos I think you guys fail to comprehend the value of this machine.

to be honest Amelia Earhart would be much more precious to me, the machine is just an artefact, an object made of various materials that are a bit old now, sooner or later museums will need to make space for eurofighters? and the world moves on.

yes I'd fly the crap out of them and have a boner while I do it....but thats another story

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Fair point. Mind you though, a Jumo or DB engine are very complex and made of rare components, in addition to that they have an extremely low TBO (last time I talked to a German guy working on a DB605, he mentioned something as shocking as a 50 hours TBO!), so maintenance wise you would need a plethora of spares, either originals or custom made, with prices skyrocketing and infinite ballaches for certification.

The stuff the guys at thevintageaviator.nz do is inspiring to say the least, but they work on extremely simpler engines.

I would, if possible, strip the block from all internals(you can use those original parts for resto of other engines with the purpose of static display or demo runs) and rebuild to modern specs - remanufacture the parts from modern materials.
Titanium sleeves, ceramic bearings, hey - whatever it takes. That beast would still sound the same I guess and nothing else matters.
(You probably would end up with a few extra hp too, that means you could fly it with even less throttle -> increased TBO)

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by swiss

Excellent condition?

I don't it was stored that well...

Edit: But this plane is not relevant for this topic as it never was stored in a museum.

Thx Swiss for the link.

Although the vid end with the typical and regretful "if that and if this then if..." I am amazed how many resources and employee dedication NG has put in there.

Thx to all those that were committed in this

[Crumpp]

you have sources for that?

Yeah, me. You have walk past the Go-229 to get to the archive reading room at the old Garber Facility.

You can walk up and examine it as close you want too.