4.11 General debugging

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by idefix44

In the attached file "Reds kill Reds.zip" are 2 files.
MarethLine43194602200.mis & MarethLine43194602200.properties.
Using the FMB you can see in B4 2 red AA and 1 red moving trucks column.
Running the mission in dogfight server mode and using the static camera you can see that the red moving trucks column is destroyed by the red AAs.
If you use a red plane and destroy the static objects, server say Ennemy AA destroyed. They are all red...

Any idea about this problem ?

I looked at the mission and there is a very simple explanation. The AA gun is really not 'shooting at' the friendly vehicle. It is shooting at an enemy target to the north. The friendly vehicle simply moves in front of the shooting artillery gun and gets destroyed.

It is basically a small error on the part of the mission builder for placing the vehicle waypoint so close the the friendly AA gun. It gets so close to the gun that it gets in the line of fire and is hit.

It is easy to prove this. Simply move the first waypoint of the vehicle convoy so it does not come so close to the AA gun. You will see that the AA gun still fires in the same direction as before (at a distant Blue target). However, this time the friendly vehicle is not hit.

Problem solved.....no bug.

Concerning your second issue: "If you use a red plane and destroy the static objects, server say Ennemy AA destroyed. They are all red..."

If you look at the mission in the FMB there are many Blue static objects. You are incorrect when you stated "They are all red...". You must have destroyed friendly units. I personally flew a Red plane in the mission and destroyed Red artillery units and the message I got was 'Friendly AAA Destroyed'.

So again, I do not see a problem.

Aviar

[idefix44]

Ok.
I'll record a track...

[Lagarto]

Originally Posted by Aviar

Problem solved.....no bug.
Aviar

I would still consider it a bug. Recently I've had to remove AA from my own airfield, because they were insanely firing at some distant target, hitting friendly aircraft on the runway. It's a ridiculous situation that shouldn't happen.
I'd rather see AA not engage ground targets at all.

[idefix44]

In the attached file "Reds kill Reds Part 2.zip" are 5 files.

MarethLine43194602200.mis
MarethLine43194602200.properties
You can use the FMB to open MarethLine43194602200.mis.

The location.jpg
A view of the 2 red AAA position with 2 red wagon8 from the FMB. A red moving trucks column start from here too.

The eventlog.lst
In the record my nickname is NAST-idefix44.
I take off with a Spit Mk IX from E3.
I fly to B4.
At 6:00 I attack the RED-FMB position. a truck, 2 wagon8 and 2 AAA.
All destroyed.
At 8:00 I attack and destroy 3 BLUE-FMB wagon8 on the base.

I repeat, the objects destroyed at 6:00 are red, the object destroyed at 8:00 are blue. I use a red plane. The 2 times the server said ennemy objects destroyed. And you can see the wrecks of the RED-FMB moving trucks column destroyed by the RED-FMB AAA.

The 5th file is the .ntrk.
Run the track, you can see all what I mean.

I persist. Here is a bug. Or record a track...

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

I would still consider it a bug. Recently I've had to remove AA from my own airfield, because they were insanely firing at some distant target, hitting friendly aircraft on the runway. It's a ridiculous situation that shouldn't happen.
I'd rather see AA not engage ground targets at all.

I would prefer to see the behaviour either not changed or modifiable. AAA in many cases engaged targets on the ground. The most famous examples would be the Flak 88mm that the Germans pressed into anti-tank service with very successful results. Other AAA types were also used and many placed machine guns in-game engage air and ground targets.

There are two solutions of which one already exists. Change the maximum range engagement which is already a feature. If you want AAA not to engage, define a minimum fire distance closer than the ground objects. Not perfect but workable in many situations.

The second would be to define by some sort of toggle. This would be an addon feature. Engage: Ground Only, Ground+Air, Air Only.

But I think it would be a loss to some scenarios (I have some in past campaigns) if primarily AAA guns were not shooting at vehicles/tanks.

[Igo kyu]

88s were known for firing at ground targets, but to fire at tanks they'd have used different ammunition (solid shot).

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

88s were known for firing at ground targets, but to fire at tanks they'd have used different ammunition (solid shot).

Not sure if that's represented in-game. If another entry for all AAA that should also fire at tanks/vehicles is easier then that'd be ok in my mind too. Just requires some reworking of older missions.

[idefix44]

Please guys,
Don't be off-topic. We aren't in the 4.12 whish list.
The problem isn't in the AA usage or features. Play the track joined in .zip file.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by idefix44

In the attached file "Reds kill Reds Part 2.zip" are 5 files.

MarethLine43194602200.mis
MarethLine43194602200.properties
You can use the FMB to open MarethLine43194602200.mis.

The location.jpg
A view of the 2 red AAA position with 2 red wagon8 from the FMB. A red moving trucks column start from here too.

The eventlog.lst
In the record my nickname is NAST-idefix44.
I take off with a Spit Mk IX from E3.
I fly to B4.
At 6:00 I attack the RED-FMB position. a truck, 2 wagon8 and 2 AAA.
All destroyed.
At 8:00 I attack and destroy 3 BLUE-FMB wagon8 on the base.

I repeat, the objects destroyed at 6:00 are red, the object destroyed at 8:00 are blue. I use a red plane. The 2 times the server said ennemy objects destroyed. And you can see the wrecks of the RED-FMB moving trucks column destroyed by the RED-FMB AAA.

The 5th file is the .ntrk.
Run the track, you can see all what I mean.

I persist. Here is a bug. Or record a track...

Having a very close look at this mission right now. Something is definitely amiss but I haven't figure out what yet. There are a lot of neutral objects on the map which is highly unusual but I'm not sure if that's the cause. There is definitely something wrong with the teams as I too took off from a Red base and flew to the Red forward position and was fired on and received enemy destroyed when I attacked the what appeared to be Red objects. They aren't neutral objects according to the .mis file.

How was this file created? By DCG? There's a lot of extra DCG references in the .mis file that I don't know very well. Perhaps one of those is causing some sort of AI related bug although I have no good ideas as to why. Variables are variables unless there is specific line parsing that is broken. Pure speculation on my part.

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by idefix44

In the attached file "Reds kill Reds Part 2.zip" are 5 files.

MarethLine43194602200.mis
MarethLine43194602200.properties
You can use the FMB to open MarethLine43194602200.mis.

The location.jpg
A view of the 2 red AAA position with 2 red wagon8 from the FMB. A red moving trucks column start from here too.

The eventlog.lst
In the record my nickname is NAST-idefix44.
I take off with a Spit Mk IX from E3.
I fly to B4.
At 6:00 I attack the RED-FMB position. a truck, 2 wagon8 and 2 AAA.
All destroyed.
At 8:00 I attack and destroy 3 BLUE-FMB wagon8 on the base.

I repeat, the objects destroyed at 6:00 are red, the object destroyed at 8:00 are blue. I use a red plane. The 2 times the server said ennemy objects destroyed. And you can see the wrecks of the RED-FMB moving trucks column destroyed by the RED-FMB AAA.

The 5th file is the .ntrk.
Run the track, you can see all what I mean.

I persist. Here is a bug. Or record a track...

The Red position I described attacking in my first post is the same position you attack in your track. So, we are both attacking the same Red units with a Red plane. As you can see by the screenshot I have attached, the messages I get on my computer are correct.

I am destroying Red units with a Red Army plane. The messages say 'Friendly Train Car: Destroyed' and 'Friendly AAA: Destroyed'.

These messages are correct. I'm not sure why the messages you are getting are different.

Aviar