Talk about how to include the tanks gameplay

[csThor]

Like I said it will end in some kind of slagfest. Anyway, any kind of attempt to include drivable tanks (I purposely exclude soft-skinned vehicles here) will be limited to a very very small thing, probably company level and below. Just to put things into perspective a german Panzer Division of 1940 fielded around 300 tanks on its own. Add to that a load of motorized/mechanized infantry (a Regiment per division), a regiment of artillery, anti-tank, pionier, signals, bridging and supply units and you're looking at a lindworm of more than a thousand vehicles. Then multiply this by 10 (for the ten Panzer Divisions the Wehrmacht had in 1940), add the Motorized Infantry Divisions and you're thinking of tens of thousands of vehicles.
This, obviously, can't be simulated. We don't even have the numbers to go beyond a company (for Germany and Britain that would be 15 tanks), and even that is already questionable (given the problems with higher player numbers on servers and the general limit of 128 players). All I could potentially envision is essentially what WoT does - putting 30 people on a map against each other. Just that we - in CloD I mean - can have AI artillery and AT-gun support as well as 88mm guns on the german side (if they're there).

One danger I see is that people won't take anything but the best armored and armed tanks, even if they were not that numerous (thinking of Mathilda and Char B1 in 1940, thinking KV and T-34 in 1941).

[Feathered_IV]

Once driveable tanks are introduced, I can imagine several scenarios that people might want to consider avoiding.

-Tanks are introduced. Players complain that protecting airfields is boring, why can't they have tank vs tank battles.

-Missions are then created with opposing tanks 5 minutes away from each other. "Epic" tank battles degenerate into a mad dash to engage then turn circles around each other at point blank range, firing continuously.

-Missions are created where tanks are supposed to overrun opposing airfields. They start 5 minutes away again. Tank players instead stand off under cover and shell aircraft at long range as they spawn. Easy points. Everybody gets mad at the Tank-sniping. Cold starts are removed from full switch servers to try to stop it. Core gameplay suffers.

-Tanks hide in trees instead of rushing into the open to get destroyed. Players who fly complain about dot visibility of ground vehicles. Tank players complain when aircraft players switch off trees and reduce building numbers in their graphics settings to deprive them of cover.

-Mission builders complain because tank players are not being funelled into the channels that they want them to go in. They want minefields or other deterrents, and end up making miles of some invulnerable FMB objects, all daisy chained together to stop tank players going where they like. Everybody complains because it looks silly...

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

Once driveable tanks are introduced, I can imagine several scenarios that people might want to consider avoiding.

-Tanks are introduced. Players complain that protecting airfields is boring, why can't they have tank vs tank battles.

-Missions are then created with opposing tanks 5 minutes away from each other. "Epic" tank battles degenerate into a mad dash to engage then turn circles around each other at point blank range, firing continuously.

-Missions are created where tanks are supposed to overrun opposing airfields. They start 5 minutes away again. Tank players instead stand off under cover and shell aircraft at long range as they spawn. Easy points. Everybody gets mad at the Tank-sniping. Cold starts are removed from full switch servers to try to stop it. Core gameplay suffers.

-Tanks hide in trees instead of rushing into the open to get destroyed. Players who fly complain about dot visibility of ground vehicles. Tank players complain when aircraft players switch off trees and reduce building numbers in their graphics settings to deprive them of cover.

-Mission builders complain because tank players are not being funelled into the channels that they want them to go in. They want minefields or other deterrents, and end up making miles of some invulnerable FMB objects, all daisy chained together to stop tank players going where they like. Everybody complains because it looks silly...

I fully expect that you'll be complaining that your tank doesn't have the correct ammo load-out or use the correct fuel, so add that to the list of terrible stuff that is headed our way.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by csThor

One danger I see is that people won't take anything but the best armored and armed tanks, even if they were not that numerous (thinking of Mathilda and Char B1 in 1940, thinking KV and T-34 in 1941).

Pretty much what we have today with the spitII in place of the Tiger.
Reality teaches us everybody wants to fly the best plane.

a mindless, pointless bar room brawl in which you will neither find coordination or a common goal nor (sadly) any indication of plain intelligence. People will do what they please the way they want it and give a f*ck about realism, teamplay or a mission goal.

Everyday business in IL2 too. CF in the air. What you want requires the players too change - it's not the games fault.

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

For the question asked in the thead, i'll provide my ideas tomorrow because it's 6:30 am and i've had quite a few drinks

I'm just posting for a little friendly heads-up here.

I urge everyone to respect the intent of this thread and stay on topic. The way i see it, the topic is "give me some cool ideas that will give us flyboys better gameplay by having non-flyboys drive some tank units".

If any of you guys want to talk about whether tanks should be included at all in the first place, you're welcome to do it. Just start a separate thread and have a go at it and i'll be glad to move posts from this thread to the new one.

Please respect the original poster's intent and topic. Ailantd, if you need any help just give us a shout: no PM, just post in this thread so that other moderators can also see it if i'm not online. Just post "moderator request: please move off topic posts to a separate thread" or something like that, one of us will see it sooner or later and separate off-topic comments to a different thread.

I'm not out to "punish" anyone and moved posts or split threads are not punishment, i just want to make sure that each thread serves its purpose so each one of us can find what we're looking for with ease: one thread to discuss gameplay ideas for ground units, another thread to discuss if we even need those units and so on.

Let us know if you need some forum management to facilitate this, by posting in this thread and requesting the appropriate changes. Cheers

"how to moderate a forum" 101

[mazex]

Originally Posted by tintifaxl

Trees and grass are of course disabled, houses at minumum in a competitive multiplayer environment. Now try to hide

Well, in a well implemented game that won't be a problem. If you are hidden in a forest that someone has disabled you will just disappear in the middle of an empty field. Guess if its better to know that there is a forest there or not?

/mazex