Thought for future expansions: Release Chronologically

[Sven]

I'm share your curiosity why Oleg would put his minds on Invasion of Holland, Belgium, France and Poland or any other relative small conflict as a complete addon, you could think of something bundeled together as in: The rise of the 3rd Reich ( That sounds very very wrong ) which includes all these conflicts in europe but not the BoB ( part of it's downfall ) and the Battle for Moscow ( together with Stalingrad turning point of eastern front), but that all will be very one sided, as the Germans completely ran their opponents over.

I think the best is what they do now: Focussing on turning points in the war. Mediterranean theatre, Battle for Britain and the Battle for Moscow, it gives the most enjoyable gameplay for Both sides and provides a good basis for further 3rd party addons and whatnot.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

[...]
Now... just how long was it before the Spit got some firepower? I'd say that will probably be the trigger for the time frame we'll be looking at for the second addon. I say that because Oleg will probably want to use all aircraft he designs throughout the lifetime of the sim.
[...]

Well, from a quick perusal of the Wikipedia article, it looks like the first unit with the 2x20mm was more or less functional in August 1940, but that would need to be checked. It does seem to fit though.

The HS.404 had already been used on prewar aircraft. About the only reason the US never got it to work was because one of our armaments houses changed part of the firing mechanism, and broke it.

[Mr_Zooly]

The pilots preferred the more reliable .303s to the grossly unreliable early HS cannon, I wonder if this is modelled in the sim (the unreliability I mean).

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Mr_Zooly

The pilots preferred the more reliable .303s to the grossly unreliable early HS cannon, I wonder if this is modelled in the sim (the unreliability I mean).

Don't think there are cannons on any british plane from what I've seen so far.

[The Kraken]

Originally Posted by GnigruH

Honestly, I don't get what is so special about poland or france campaigns.

- Crap planes?
You can have plenty of those elswhere.
I also dubt that large audience will enthusiastically fly unknown (and, with one exception, inferior) polish planes from this period.

- Luftwaffel planes o b l i t e r a t i n g everything?
Yeah, this might be enough for those, who like to blitz over the sky in their bf109 untouchable and superior to all. Luftwaffel loving king of the sky wannabes ...

These battles have no allied aeroplane that became a legend of ww2.
And you need one to sell the sim worldwide.

So why poland/france?
Enlighten me.
Btw I don't want to cause a flame war, just curious

The commercial value may be the deal breaker, but as another crap-plane lover, a France or Poland campaign would be a dream come true for me.

First, those scenarios have never been done before.

Second, the overall superiority of the Luftwaffe in these campaigns (questionable for the France campaign anyway) does not mean every single engagement was completely one-sided. There were more than a few losses over Poland as well. Especially bomber or Stuka campaigns should be more interesting here than over England. Flying for Poland would certainly be a challenge, but that only makes it more interesting for me. And would anyone say that late-war scenarios shouldn't be done either because of the undisputed allied superiority?

Third, I have no interest in "balance" in the planeset, and while the BoB scenario is reasonably balanced in the fighters area, flying Stukas or Bf-110s over England, especially in somewhat historical roles, isn't any less suicidal than attacking German bombers over Poland.

And finally, similar arguments were brought up before Il2's release about the Eastern front theatre. It turned out to be more than interesting though.


I do hope eventually some 3rd party effort can be made to model those theatres, as I don't see Oleg himself being able to afford it. Sure would be great though...!

[GnigruH]

the overall superiority of the Luftwaffe in these campaigns (questionable for the France campaign anyway) does not mean every single engagement was completely one-sided.

During invasion of poland luftwaffe lost 285 aircraft to all operational causes, poles 333, so the price for this quick victory was high, especially given the circumstances.
But that's irrelevant, cos' it's about axis having superior aircraft.

And would anyone say that late-war scenarios shouldn't be done either because of the undisputed allied superiority?

What I said above is the difference between late war scenario and september '39.
Late at war allies had air superiority, but german planes were not inferior to their counterparts.
If your plane is good and fast you can engage numerically superior force. It will work on-line too.

But imagine a mission where you have to intercept the incoming bomber formation. You approach them head-on, fire a burst into one of them, turn and see them far away and yourself being unable to chase them cos' your fighter is slower than these bombers.

I can't imagine a good and entertaining '39 fighter campaign for polish air forces.
It would be stuka and recon aircraft pounding and avoiding enemy fighters at all cost.
Bomber campaign would be more reasonable, but still hard fighting for survival.

And what about multi? Who would fly polish aircraft?
Poles and few hard-core players from other countries?

These kind of campaigns could be made by 3rd parties, although I doubt that polish modding scene of this sim will be huge enough to make, lets say 4 flyables and 6 non-flyables from scratch.
But time will tell.

I personally hope for north africa '41-'42.

[nearmiss]

I cannot understand why anyone would want a Polish or French addon.

They were both stomped into the dust... in record time. It was like take off and die for the Polish and French pilots.

So... a sad part of history, nevertheless there can still be those who want to enough historical abuse. LOL

Probably just as well for the air war to progress from BOB into the Western European battles and war. The "island" was a major deployment area for the war after BOB.

[Chivas]

The developers will probably never do a commercial Early France or Poland, because there isn't enough interest and/or dollars, but third parties were doing just that early in the BOB SOW development. They probably folded because of BOB's delays, but that shows there is enough interest with 3rd parties to develop the addon.

[ElAurens]

If you want more "crap" planes, like I do, then the Sino-Japanese conflict from 1937 to just before the AVG era would be a great way to go.

The Curtiss Hawk 75, I-16, and A5M would be uber planes in that scenario.

It would be heaven.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I cannot understand why anyone would want a Polish or French addon.

They were both stomped into the dust... in record time. It was like take off and die for the Polish and French pilots.

That is entirely untrue.

The so called "massively inferior and out of date" state of the Polish armed forces was initially just German propaganda and it then became convenient for the Allies to allow that false impression to continue as it helped allied morale to think that Poland had collapsed because of an "out of date poorly led army". Another myth was the cavalry charges against tanks. It never happened. What the Polish did have was very effective mobile anti tank units with anti tank guns that moved to new positions through rough terrain on horseback.

The myth has been perpetuated by Hollywood who like us to think that everyone in WWII was hopeless and useless except the US.

German Quartermaster General’s reports admitted the loss of 258 planes throughout the Polish Campaign. You can probably add to that another 100 or more damaged so severely as to need virtual rebuilding or not acknowledged directly as lost to enemy action.

A good estimate is around 350 Luftwaffe aircraft were lost all together over 6 weeks or so in Poland. Of those 350 around 120-150 were shot down in air to air combat. The rest were destroyed on the ground or shot down by AAA.

That compares VERY favorably with the 1100 the RAF managed down over the entire battle of Britain.

Note that the Polish airforce was still flying and active from secret airbases right up to the time the Russians invaded and the country surrendered. Up until the Russians invaded the Poles fought on hoping the British and French would grow a brain and realise teh entire German forces were occupied in the East and mount an invasion of Germany . If they had WWII might have been avoided.