Little OT: World of Planes

[addman]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

I know i should have an open mind it but I am negative for this game not because of what it represent but because of the trolls that come out of the wood work and say how it's a better sim than il2, they are completely different.

If you go on simhq much you will know what I mean.

But it might be better than IL-2 in some ways, at the same time IL-2 might be better at some other things. Really though, there is no "better" in this case as there is no comparison because these are two totally different experiences aiming at totally different things, they probably aren't in competition with each other. This is truly a case of apple vs oranges, there can't be a winner arguing over these two games...IMHO of course.

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by addman

I chuckle every time I read a thread like this. The usual mob swinging their pitchforks in the air "HERESY HERESY!!". I enjoy a proper home cooked dinner, it takes time and labour to make but it's rewarding, I also enjoy a quick, greasy kebab/pizza/hamburger sometimes. Why must one bash the other? It's narrow minded, ignorant and just plain childish IMO. Also look in the grand perspective of things, these kind of games creates interest in the sim genre for people looking for a deeper experience. What's with the fear and bashing? It boggles my mind.

Your post is probably the most childish and bashing in the entire thread.

Also I fail to follow your logic there. Why do you assume an eventually more shallow copy of a flight sim creates interest for other games in that genre?
I wish it were true but it's not and I'd ask you to provide some insight into that wisdom of yours and also eventually some numbers.
If it were true we would have no issues with this genre at all. See Altitude, Dog Fighter, Hammerfight, Wings of Prey, H.A.W.X., Battlefield 2, Bad Company 2, Call of Duty etc.

Also I wouldn't exactly call it fear. What I was saying is sadly nothing but the truth and if you ask professionals in the industry you'll quickly come to realize that the "free to play" business is the most profitable segment of the gaming industry currently with companies offering f2p games often outperforming direct sale or subscription competitors in the same genre by the factor 2 to 5.

But then again, this is also directly the reason why I said this forum here is probably not the place to advertise this direct competitor. I find it generally disturbing but obviously others will obviously give an opinion - either liking or disliking the title.

[Hunden]

Originally Posted by SEE

Any title that widens the market potential for combat flightsims can only be a good thing. I started on Birds of Prey for the Xbox and as result of that bought a PC and installed Il21946 and of course - CloD. I know quite a few who started on the arcade level titles and moved up a notch or two ...or three!

Same here, started with the free down load of wop on ps3 or was that Bop.

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by Madfish

Your post is probably the most childish and bashing in the entire thread.

Also I fail to follow your logic there. Why do you assume an eventually more shallow copy of a flight sim creates interest for other games in that genre?
I wish it were true but it's not and I'd ask you to provide some insight into that wisdom of yours and also eventually some numbers.
If it were true we would have no issues with this genre at all. See Altitude, Dog Fighter, Hammerfight, Wings of Prey, H.A.W.X., Battlefield 2, Bad Company 2, Call of Duty etc.

Also I wouldn't exactly call it fear. What I was saying is sadly nothing but the truth and if you ask professionals in the industry you'll quickly come to realize that the "free to play" business is the most profitable segment of the gaming industry currently with companies offering f2p games often outperforming direct sale or subscription competitors in the same genre by the factor 2 to 5.

But then again, this is also directly the reason why I said this forum here is probably not the place to advertise this direct competitor. I find it generally disturbing but obviously others will obviously give an opinion - either liking or disliking the title.

Madfish you are acting like a childish fanboy. What addman has said is the truth and you have people here telling you that they are the proof that you are wrong. Please grow up.

[baronWastelan]

Originally Posted by SEE

Any title that widens the market potential for combat flightsims can only be a good thing. I started on Birds of Prey for the Xbox and as result of that bought a PC and installed Il21946 and of course - CloD. I know quite a few who started on the arcade level titles and moved up a notch or two ...or three!

Same here, except replace 'Birds of Prey for the Xbox' with 'Blue Max for Atari 800', and also replace 'Il21946' with 'Aces of the Pacific'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFoXUDoNfzM

[addman]

Originally Posted by Madfish

Your post is probably the most childish and bashing in the entire thread.

Also I fail to follow your logic there. Why do you assume an eventually more shallow copy of a flight sim creates interest for other games in that genre?
I wish it were true but it's not and I'd ask you to provide some insight into that wisdom of yours and also eventually some numbers.
If it were true we would have no issues with this genre at all. See Altitude, Dog Fighter, Hammerfight, Wings of Prey, H.A.W.X., Battlefield 2, Bad Company 2, Call of Duty etc.

Also I wouldn't exactly call it fear. What I was saying is sadly nothing but the truth and if you ask professionals in the industry you'll quickly come to realize that the "free to play" business is the most profitable segment of the gaming industry currently with companies offering f2p games often outperforming direct sale or subscription competitors in the same genre by the factor 2 to 5.

But then again, this is also directly the reason why I said this forum here is probably not the place to advertise this direct competitor. I find it generally disturbing but obviously others will obviously give an opinion - either liking or disliking the title.

How can I be bashing and being childish when I asked of people to act more rational and open minded? You're being childish by calling me childish, and now you forced me to behave childishly to prove my point, my point being that you where responding to my post in a childish manner. Anywho, it's your opinion and that's cool by me.

P.S Note how "open-mindedly" I ended my post there, try it sometimes it makes you feel all cozy inside

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

Madfish you are acting like a childish fanboy. What addman has said is the truth and you have people here telling you that they are the proof that you are wrong. Please grow up.

Yes I will daddy. Please tell me when I'm old enough to be allowed to post my opinion.

All fun aside, and I hope you were joking - calling me a fanboy would be... extremely odd.
I can guarantee you there is a great chance that I have more of these "casual" flight games than you or most of the people in this thread. At least I own all of those I listed above as examples (and many, many others, but whatever).
I'm not against casual games at all and I'm certainly not a fanboy of this game just because I feel it's worth pointing out the oddness of advertising an eventually direct competitor here. 90% of the time I play co-op titles these days, no matter what genre.

But thanks for contributing so maturely.

@addman
Instead of insulting me again, and yes, your post was the one that started the bashing... could you just read and actually discuss instead? I haven't seen you answering my question for example:

Also I fail to follow your logic there. Why do you assume an eventually more shallow copy of a flight sim creates interest for other games in that genre?
I wish it were true but it's not and I'd ask you to provide some insight into that wisdom of yours and also eventually some numbers.
If it were true we would have no issues with this genre at all. See Altitude, Dog Fighter, Hammerfight, Wings of Prey, H.A.W.X., Battlefield 2, Bad Company 2, Call of Duty etc.

So yes, aside from cannibalizing potential markets... are there any cases like that you can comment on? Because I don't know of any.
I know of many in the mainstream markets - but not in side genre like space shooters, sims etc.

And calling everyone "the mob" "narrow minded, ignorant and just plain childish " is certainly not bashing and I'm very childish for pointint that out yes? Maybe you should actually re-read what you posted. Thank you very much.

But then again, this thread seems to derail even further with each post and obviously even questions go unanswered - aside from being insulted that is. I'm not against casual games and I certainly am not trying to tell others what to do. I do however question some companies decisions to exploit and cannibalize smaller market sectors to rake in the money and I'm also questioning what good that will do for the genre in general.
And yes, I know that there are exeptions. There will always be exeptions. But then again, so many genres died. Not because there aren't exeptions but because they aren't profitable enough. For example if you take a look at how many people are posting here that they feel cheated for paying 50 bucks for CloD... you can imagine how dangerous the situation is can you? It's not about those 10 people moving up to IL-2 from Wings of Prey. It's about the 100.000 not buying CloD. And partly responsible is the situation of not having infinite cash to make a sim that doesn't sell nearly as good as even the most mediocre titles out there.
That said it's odd how you expect others to tolerate your opinion even if you call them names while trampeling over theirs.

So either we have a manner issue here or maybe this just isn't the right forum after all?

[SEE]

Madfish, whatever your opinion regards discussing alternative titles, the OP has abided by the rules set out in the 'sticky'. I am sure that if there were any problems with his post it would have been deleted.

It appears that there aren't!

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by Madfish

Yes I will daddy. Please tell me when I'm old enough to be allowed to post my opinion.

All fun aside, and I hope you were joking - calling me a fanboy would be... extremely odd.
I can guarantee you there is a great chance that I have more of these "casual" flight games than you or most of the people in this thread. At least I own all of those I listed above as examples (and many, many others, but whatever).
I'm not against casual games at all and I'm certainly not a fanboy of this game just because I feel it's worth pointing out the oddness of advertising an eventually direct competitor here. 90% of the time I play co-op titles these days, no matter what genre.

But thanks for contributing so maturely.

@addman
Instead of insulting me again, and yes, your post was the one that started the bashing... could you just read and actually discuss instead? I haven't seen you answering my question for example:

So yes, aside from cannibalizing potential markets... are there any cases like that you can comment on? Because I don't know of any.
I know of many in the mainstream markets - but not in side genre like space shooters, sims etc.

And calling everyone "the mob" "narrow minded, ignorant and just plain childish " is certainly not bashing and I'm very childish for pointint that out yes? Maybe you should actually re-read what you posted. Thank you very much.

But then again, this thread seems to derail even further with each post and obviously even questions go unanswered - aside from being insulted that is. I'm not against casual games and I certainly am not trying to tell others what to do. I do however question some companies decisions to exploit and cannibalize smaller market sectors to rake in the money and I'm also questioning what good that will do for the genre in general.
And yes, I know that there are exeptions. There will always be exeptions. But then again, so many genres died. Not because there aren't exeptions but because they aren't profitable enough. For example if you take a look at how many people are posting here that they feel cheated for paying 50 bucks for CloD... you can imagine how dangerous the situation is can you? It's not about those 10 people moving up to IL-2 from Wings of Prey. It's about the 100.000 not buying CloD. And partly responsible is the situation of not having infinite cash to make a sim that doesn't sell nearly as good as even the most mediocre titles out there.
That said it's odd how you expect others to tolerate your opinion even if you call them names while trampeling over theirs.

So either we have a manner issue here or maybe this just isn't the right forum after all?

I wasn't joking.
Also you need more information because you facts are wrong.

1. World of Planes is made by Gaijin (Wings of Prey, Apache Air Assault) not Wargaming.net (World of Tanks, World of WARplanes)
2. Gaijin do not have infinate cash . They are a small developer that make niche titles and there will probably be very little advertisment if any. They are in exactly the same position as MG. They are not going to rake in tons of cash. Obviously they hope to do well, but at their heart they themselves are fans of this genre.

Addman did not start the bashing. The bashing started right from the start of this thread by Krupi (Who takes every chance he has to bash WoP even when its totaly off topic).
It happens every thread that someone starts about World of planes. This on was even in the right section of the forum (where we can talk about anything we like by the way). This is not SIMHQ, what happens there cannot be used to allow rudeness here. The original poster was not "Advertising" he was only sharing his interest, it is not rude to do this. What was rude was you saying "Don't make me Laugh" and "if you want to waste your time..."

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by SEE

Madfish, whatever your opinion regards discussing alternative titles, the OP has abided by the rules set out in the 'sticky'. I am sure that if there were any problems with his post it would have been deleted.

It appears that there aren't!

I'm impressed. Didn't take long until the next guy comes, twisting my words and tries to provoke I guess?

I am not, especially in my last post, saying this thread is violating any forum rules. Since you posted since my first posts, where I indicated it might be odd to discuss a direct competitor here, then I wonder why you bring this up now, pretending I want this thread to be deleted?

The thing I pointed out was that apparently some people can't keep their calm without calling names and starting personal attacks. I have no problems discussing some points but instead of doing so names get thrown around.

The thing is that times have changed and while, and I even admitted that naturally there are examples of people that "switched" from arcade to real sim titles, this is not what the big numbers are about. Those few people are not what's feeding a development company over the years either.
The problem with market cannibalism can be seen looking at the MMO genre. Do you know how many MMO's wen't "free to play" just because they couldn't get a foot into the door since World of Warcraft? It's in the dozens.

But whatever, I'll just try avoid that topic and if it makes you, robo and addman happy I'll gladly let myself be called a childish, narrow minded, ignorant, scared mob and fanboy for the sake of mentioning that it's eventually bad taste to discuss this here, knowing how much of a threat that game could prove to be.

But of course we all know that things in real life always turn out perfectly and that no product or title ever caused even almost unrelated products to be in deep trouble. See iPhone, World of Warcraft and many others... Yep.
Irony aside I only want to bring to the table that you cannot simply say it will help CloD. Eventually this could happen - eventually it'll turn out to be that threatening to the financial potential of CloD that we will not see any / many expansions at all. Just because they wouldn't sell in large numbers - maybe, maybe not.

The thing is that I belive only a minority has the equipment at home to play CloD well. E.g. for CEM, head tracking and more. It'd certainly help the title to prepare for the worst, being that WoP will prove to be a nemesis and making it necessary to provide a better tutorial, being more open to the casual players with a nice story campaign, even if it's fictional, and a great multiplayer interface even if the hyperlobby community is very established. Basically getting rid of a few (unecessary as I believe) weaknesses.
[EDIT]Oh and by the way; this includes the community! For example the trend to go full realism all the time. In theory CloD could be as arcade as any other sim out there if you turn off/on all the options necessary. But the problem with that is that it's not as refined for arcade and that the community is VERY very very unforgiving. The idea of arcade or a balanced gameplay even if that means sacrificing a little bit of authenticity is very unaccepted. I remember a lot of occasions where this happened[/EDIT]

That said I'm not sure what causes all this name calling and (mis)judging of people. I wonder if you guys would act like that just sitting together at a table or a bar.