Improve your aiming/marksman skills

[ATAG_Snapper]

Originally Posted by hegykc

Well after a week of testing I found out that I had the "only 2 guns firing" bug on my single point conversion tests.

And than when I fixed it, I cannot see a significant difference between a single point and my setup, from ranges of 100 meters or less.

What I can take away from this is that pilot kills (from 100 meters or less) are so easy they're actually hard to avoid. After murdering more than 100 pilots I started testing the setup on engines but gave up.
It takes only a half second burst into the upper cockpit, shooting from the left side and the pilot is toasted. Any type of ammo any type of target, any convergence setup from 100 to 1000 meters.

Great thread, Hegykc. Time for me to practice some offline deflection shooting.

Does anyone know if ballistic energy depletion over distance is modelled in Cliffs of Dover? ie. An AP round is far more effective in penetration power at 100 yards vs 1000 yards (accuracy notwithstanding).

[hegykc]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Great thread, Hegykc. Time for me to practice some offline deflection shooting.

Does anyone know if ballistic energy depletion over distance is modelled in Cliffs of Dover? ie. An AP round is far more effective in penetration power at 100 yards vs 1000 yards (accuracy notwithstanding).

I think I can confirm that.

If you set your convergence at say 300 meters and shoot at 100 meters or even less, you still inflict massive damage even though the bullet patterns are spread out. More damage than if you had shot at 300 meters even though you'd get perfect bullet concentration.

This might also be in large due to the fact that at 300 meters the big He-111 is just a dot in the sights and your firing more or less blindly at the whole aircraft and hope you hit something vital.
While at 100 meters you can actually aim at an engine, wing fuel tank or the pilot.

Seems to me the .303 caliber (at least in game) is pretty much useless at more than 200 meters, and takes a lot of hits to do significant damage at more than 130 meters.

This is all tested on bombers.

[ATAG_Snapper]

That answers my question....thank you!!

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by hegykc

Seems to me the .303 caliber (at least in game) is pretty much useless at more than 200 meters, and takes a lot of hits to do significant damage at more than 130 meters.

Salute

That may be true for .303's, it is not true for the German light 7.92mm MG's because of the SmK (H) tungsten round, you can pilot kill at as far as 300 meters, even from dead six where the pilot armour should protect.

This contradicts tests both the Germans and British did, which showed that 7.92mm rounds needed to be fired at ranges under 100 meters to have a good chance of penetrating pilot armour.

As I have pointed out before, this is an ahistorical advantage which the German side has been given, the round was not part of the historical 109 loadout, it was a rare round, not generally available, and in short supply.

[klem]

Originally Posted by hegykc

Well after a week of testing I found out that I had the "only 2 guns firing" bug on my single point conversion tests.

And than when I fixed it, I cannot see a significant difference between a single point and my setup, from ranges of 100 meters or less.

What I can take away from this is that pilot kills (from 100 meters or less) are so easy they're actually hard to avoid. After murdering more than 100 pilots I started testing the setup on engines but gave up.
It takes only a half second burst into the upper cockpit, shooting from the left side and the pilot is toasted. Any type of ammo any type of target, any convergence setup from 100 to 1000 meters.

hegykc, have you tried your convergence settings on-line?

[hegykc]

No I haven't yet.

That's why I tested on bombers, figured they would behave similar to what real bomber pilots do online?

[AbortedMan]

Originally Posted by hegykc

Before I scare away people with some more complicated stuff, here's a picture:

I'm not understanding why the gunsight is set at 317 and 330 in these pictures...if the graphic is showing the target at 150 yards and 300 yards respectively, shouldn't the gunsight be set at 150 yards and 300 yards as well to achieve the desired convergence pattern when the target is at the proper distances according to your gunsight?

Also...the picture showing the convergence zones of each paired guns and the vertical/horizontal values don't match up....shouldn't all of the convergences have the same vertical convergence except for the inboard-most guns?...with these current numbers, your No.4 guns fall short at less than halfway to the target if you're firing at 300 yards.

I are confuse.

[hegykc]

Disregard these charts completely.

Sorry but after some tests I've found some things I did wrong. I'll post updated charts, and few different setups for both bombers and fighters, both expert pilots and those not so much, later in this thread.

In the mean time, you can try these (setup so that they cover an engine profile of a He-111 or a 109 at 70-150 meters)

Convergences (in meters, reversed so type them in as they are - russian conv. labels seem to be fixed, english are not?)

Guns Vertical Horizontal
1/8----121----109
2/7----100----107
3/6----153----200
4/5----241----205

Gunsight distance set to 150-170 yards. Should be effective from 70 to 200 yards/meters.
Set wingspan according to your target.

[AbortedMan]

Originally Posted by hegykc

Disregard these charts completely.

Sorry but after some tests I've found some things I did wrong. I'll post updated charts, and few different setups for both bombers and fighters, both expert pilots and those not so much, later in this thread.

In the mean time, you can try these (setup so that they cover an engine profile of a He-111 or a 109 at 70-150 meters)

Convergences (in meters, reversed so type them in as they are - russian conv. labels seem to be fixed, english are not?)

Guns Vertical Horizontal
1/8----121----109
2/7----100----107
3/6----153----200
4/5----241----205

Gunsight distance set to 150-170 yards. Should be effective from 70 to 200 yards/meters.
Set wingspan according to your target.

Ehh...if you use this convergence set at anywhere over 100 yards and your pip is on the center of the target, two of your guns will be out of the fight as the rounds they're firing will fall short of the target...am I missing something?

If you're trying to emulate the convergence pattern on the diagram, as in, if in a head-on encounter, and you're firing, your rounds will be hitting enemy spinner, both wing roots and front windscreen, wouldn't you want all* guns at an equal vertical value (*except for guns 4 and 5) which you'd up their vertical convergence up by 50 meters or so?

Your vertical convergence values are what I'm not understanding...but I'm totally onboard with your idea.

[klem]

Its a "spray and pray" pattern. Apparently off line you can kill the pilot every time and down a He111 with just a couple of .303 rounds so if you spread the pattern wide enough to get just a couple of hits you will kill pilots and aircraft at the first pass.

It doesn't seem to work like that on-line.