Is ammo modeled at all?

[Catseye]

Originally Posted by bw_wolverine

The question has nothing to do with convergence, that's just about shooting properly. The question is about the loadout in those belts.

Which bullets was he using before he started killing your pilot?
Which bullets was he using after he started killing your pilot?

Catseye's suggestion is that, regardless of the damage done, it doesn't really matter anymore what ammunition you load onto the belts. They all seem to do the same thing. At least if you're flying red. That's been his experience with the final patch, anyway, as far as I'm led to understand.

Correct! Spot on!

I'm wondering if others have noticed and hoping the feedback demonstrates the pros and cons. For me, it would help to understand this more in order to be more judicious in my loadout selections.
Cheers

[Catseye]

Originally Posted by vranac

Yes there are differences,I was acting as target to my friend to improve his shooting for the championship.
When he set belts and convergention right he started killing my poor pilot

Do you know what his ammo belt was that was better?
or . . . . do you think that it was just his convergence settings that made the difference?

If it makes little difference on the loadout selected, then convergence becomes the deciding factor I think.

Convergence is not a part of this question. This will muddy the water completely. It is a question aimed directly at loadouts only.

[vranac]

Both are important.

To see what is the best convergence settings for you I recomend Repka 4.
There are icons to see the distance and you can record tracks there without being kicked from the server(at least for me) and alive pilots.
You can see on what distance you shoot most of the time.

Then set it and try again.

[David198502]

Originally Posted by Catseye

Speaking from the Red side, I've tried different loadouts - ie., clean with all guns either loaded with AP or Ball or DeWilde for example, and during offline testing found that there doesn't appear to be much difference in the damage caused. Even mixing loadouts shows little difference. Incendiary for example does not create any more flame than AP.

I do notice that different Luftwaffe bombers seem to have a different damage model. I've found that regardless of the type of ammo used on a He-111 the same results ensue - the crew are completely killed and big holes are seen on the airframe. Do-17's show big holes and flame - Ju-88's only show small entry holes and vent - 110's are flying tanks - 109's will vent and flame regardless of the loadout.

So, I'm thinking that the devs have not really modeled the ammo as it should be.

Thoughts?

Cheers

well, with the beta patches and now the final one, it indeed seem to contain changes in regards of ammunition and their effects....i cant speak about the RAF types of ammo, but on the LW side for example the B-Beobachtung(Observer) rounds lost their historical correct explosive effects...

maybe the devs reduced/deleted the different effects of different rounds to safe performance?
overall it indeed looks more random now than it did before.

[Catseye]

Originally Posted by David198502

maybe the devs reduced/deleted the different effects of different rounds to safe performance?
overall it indeed looks more random now than it did before.

Good point David.
My suspicions are that they did not spend a great deal of time programming the ammo except in a general fashion. I'm guessing that modeling the loadouts took a back seat due to all the other issues at hand and that they were concentrating on getting the sim engine perfected to be able to proceed to the sequel.

IMHO, considering what would be required to track each and every bullet fired by ballistics, type, location of hit, type of damage to be modeled and much more - I'm of the opinion that it would take a considerable amount of time to perfect it and also, that in the state of the sim - it might bring it to its knees with stutters.

Hopefully some others will jump in here who have done some tests also.

Cheers

[5./JG27.Farber]

I'd point at the DM rather than the ammo. Like you said, why in aircraft of simular construction and materials do you get different results?

[Catseye]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

I'd point at the DM rather than the ammo. Like you said, why in aircraft of simular construction and materials do you get different results?

Good point Farber!!
This makes it interesting online for example. Different damage model for different aircraft can certainly create an imbalance in gameplay between flyable models. Many have expressed some observations on just this but cannot put a finger on anything specific.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

I'd point at the DM rather than the ammo. Like you said, why in aircraft of simular construction and materials do you get different results?

I agree with Farber on this, luthier having told as much...in the old game there was a modder with a ammo fetish, he was gonna in and make it right. He was astounded to find that the ammo was modeled correctly. I'm sure that is the case here with Clod

[David198502]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

I agree with Farber on this, luthier having told as much...in the old game there was a modder with a ammo fetish, he was gonna in and make it right. He was astounded to find that the ammo was modeled correctly. I'm sure that is the case here with Clod

yeah pretty much....there is still a difference in my view as well....though they made B-Beobachtung unexplosive now unfortunately....because this was modeled correctly already and now for some reason that effect is gone...