BoBII discussion thread

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Trumper

BoB11 is an old engine and worked on by volunteers for nothing so really can't be compared to a modern brand new program with a professional team of full time developers.

That depends..

IMHO it would not be fair to compare BoB II's graphics to CoD graphics..

But I think it is 'ok' to compare BoB II's AI and campaign to CoDs! Note I said 'ok' not 'fair'.

Why?

Because something happened years ago.. online game play.. Since than there has been more and more 'resources' (time & money) devoted to online play than offline play. Some big game makers have enough 'resources' to do both.. But as we all know flight sims have limited 'resources' realitive to other games.. Thus they have to focus on the market demands.. And the sad truth of that is more people care about online gameplay against other human pilots than offline AI and campaigns

I miss the games like SWOTL and RB where the offline campaign pulled you in and made you feel apart of what was going on.. But to be honest, if I had to choose between the two I would pick online play over offline play wrt flight sims. Note I said if I had to choose, that is based on me knowing flight sims makers have limited 'resources'. It would be great to have both, but clearly that is not the case

Thus long story short.. It is not fair to compare BoB II's AI and Offline to CoD for the reasons I noted above.. Which is not to say that I think BoB II's AI is better, just pointing out that it is not fair IMHO to compare a flight sim who focus is on OFFLINE play such that they didn't even include ONLINE play to CoD who's focus, like so many modern sims, is on ONLINE play

Just my 2 cents

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Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Agree, professional developers creating a brand new program should do much better in much less time than a group of semi-trained volunteers.

Just to be crystal..

All the links I provided are realitive to the 2005 Shockwave Productions, Inc. (currently known as A2A simulaton) release of BoB II.. Not the work done by modders since that date

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Just thought I should add that there are options. BoB2 has better AI, better comms, and a much better campaign system and single missions which are leaps and bounds over CloD. So with this in mind, you advocate that this should have all been available at release? Interesting.

Please could this post not be removed, as I feel it is useful for anyone who has never played BoB2. In terms of gameplay, it's the best Battle of Britain game on the market at the moment.

I don't understand responses to iamnotdavid.

Does he own the COD or IL2?

In fact, he never gives any information that would infer he has either. Has anyone ever read any of his postings that were a actual discussion of using either?

This is off topic forums and this topic for discussion is fine here.

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I don't understand responses to iamnotdavid.

Does he own the COD or IL2?

In fact, he never gives any information that would infer he has either. Has anyone ever read any of his postings that were a actual discussion of using either?

This is off topic forums and this topic for discussion is fine here.

The response was thus because he said something about the complaints against CloD's AI being pointless if there was no comparison. I chipped in and said that actually there was a comparison, which currently has the best AI and arguably the best campaign system in any WW2 Aerial combat sim played by people today.


AoA: you are wrong. Bob2 does have online. Albeit the system is extremely poor, but it does work. It does exactly what it says on the tin. Take a look at the A2A website if you like.


The two are comparable because CloD is leaps and bounds over BoB2 in terms of technology. It could be as good as it offline easily, so why isn't it? It was in development for longer, probably has a larger team behind it with more resources and more community support, so there is no credible reason why it isn't as good. The point is, I want CLoD to be as good as BoB2 offline. I love the latter game, but it is old and CloD could be a worthy successor. The two are not mutually exclusive; i can enjoy them equally, but because of this I can compare them equally.

CloD has an online and offline experience. So does Bob2. For someone who gets as literal as you, there is your answer. No one is holding Bob2 as the benchmark of flight-sims. You go way too far in analyses for them to warrant any intelligent attention.

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Originally Posted by philip.ed

AoA: you are wrong. Bob2 does have online. Albeit the system is extremely poor, but it does work.

Not likely but no worries either way mate.. In that I was simply quoting the online reviews.

Originally Posted by philip.ed

It does exactly what it says on the tin. Take a look at the A2A website if you like.

Are you sure your not confusing Rowan's original BoB with Shockwaves BoB II? Because looking at the A2A sites there is still no mention of BoB II being sold with online capabilities, i.e.

A2A simulations BoB

Maybe it is some hack/mod that was added later? Because Rowan did release the original BoB I code to the world prior to going out of business.. And that is the code Shockwave started with when they made BoB II. But as one of the quotes I provided stated, Shockwave decided to remove the online capabilities because they were unable to fix the bugs in the original Rowan BoB I code.. Which brings us back to that recourses thing.. They put all their focus in OFFLINE such that they were unable to fix the ONLINE aspects

[philip.ed]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. The A2A forum is the place to check out: http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

The website itself clearly states that the game is developed now by the dedicated freeware BDG group. And the multiplayer works exactly as it is talked about on the forums. It's not the focus of the game in anyway, but needless to say it exists. http://a2asimulations.com/forum/view...p?f=10&t=22630

I understand why you feel the two are incomparable, but they are the only two aviation sims that focus on the BoB. With that in mind, it is a worthwhile assessment for offline players. Clearly for onliners, the introduction of CloD is brilliant, and many may have seen it as a progression from modded Il-2 online.

BoB2 was never developed as an online sim. It's aimed at a minority of simmers. That doesn't mean it can't be compared to CloD: the latter uses technology such that it could run with all of Bob2's offline features if it was developed enough (or, perhaps, if it was opened to community groups).

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

The website itself clearly states that the game is developed now by the dedicated freeware BDG group.

Ah, as I expected..

A post developer mod and not part of the A2A product for sale. Thus all my orginal statments still stand

And this even highlights my statments..

That the focus was on OFFLINE such that it took them years after the inital release to include (mod/hack) ONLINE into the game.. And even after all that time and effort it is still 'funky' ONLINE play..

Which only shows how much effort (amout of resorses) is required to get ONLINE in at release time and done right..

Like CoD has done.

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I don't understand responses to iamnotdavid.

Does he own the COD or IL2?

In fact, he never gives any information that would infer he has either. Has anyone ever read any of his postings that were a actual discussion of using either?

This is off topic forums and this topic for discussion is fine here.

I have both. I don't play IL2 at all since I got RoF. I'm playing CoD offline until it is fixed. The reason you don't see me discussing CoD is because, unlike many others in here, I don't see the point of whining constantly about something that is in the process of being fixed.