Soviet fighters and 4.12

[gaunt1]

Are La-5/F/FN/7 supercharger switch altitudes correct in IL-2? Im just asking this because I noticed considerable fluctuation between different variants, up to 700m. For example, La-5, second gear shift is @ 4600m. La-5, @ 4000m, La-5FN, @ 4400m, La-7 @ 3900m. Is this correct?

[1984]

Originally Posted by IceFire

That all sounds pretty reasonable to me in terms of fixes for the series.

what really interesting in Karaya's post, it's speed of some la at high altitude, apparently, it's really not correctly (i think it's "balance")... just personally i focused at low alts, main atl at s-g front, so, missed this... well, anyway, now it's important only for those who will do new performances or who want for yourself full real picture of s-g front...

Originally Posted by IceFire

1984, what do you think? Russian sources suggest similarly?

Originally Posted by IceFire

Missed that. Really interesting!

i and sources, as before, say what better need ignored any posts of gaunt1 or Z1024 or similar users if you want to know true - it's just opinions - mainly wrong and too simple...

no knowing of language... without docs... sometimes even could not read simple tables which found... etc...

i have now 87 posts about errors, not absolutely correctly sometimes, but... i know my language... read all normal books... plus some free docs and many peoples... etc... well, and little later i want write (apparently, again only for self, or some users who READ) what found in sources/docs/books about la-5/7...

So far as I know, no 3D model changes... just performances.

at least, need do other front bulletproof of two halves for some planes (attached pic and i saw also rear bulletproof of few parts - apparently, after repair - for some yaks), need bomb racks, need opening cockpit/radiators etc (here i clearly see opened "stvorki" on sides of engine, ie, worse turn time and speed by la-5fn manual), need mirror in cockpit (though, probably, mirrors almost always filmed)... maybe something more, can't remember now... but, in fact, DT can do only new performances like with new fw 190s which have, apparently, much more wrong 3d model even now...

well, all depends what can and will do DT, of course...

and in fact, in game need include and reworking really lot of things, i repeat...

for example, lagg-3 4 serie in game are - in fact - FRANKENPLANE, with wrong 3d model, wrong fuel load, wrong weapons, wrong ammo load for all guns, wrong max. diving speed and wrong performance, ie now in game no any normal laggs of early series for period from summer'41 until summer-autumn'42...

other series of lagg-3 not correctly, in some sense, too... as many many other planes... ohhh... sometimes i just wonder how all wrong, and it lasts for many YEARS...

[1984]

Originally Posted by JG52Karaya

Problem with the La-5/7 series is their overly high topspeeds which are partly based on the "etalon" production standard setting prototypes (of which no serial produced machine ever had hopes to reproduce performances)

you are not right and i was already tired to repeat it to anyone who tries to speak here about what he doesn't have a clue, in fact...

again, now special for you - best prototype'43 of la-5fn had 595 kph at sl and 3165 kg... best prototype of la-5f without gagrot had (if i'm not mistaken here) 565 kph at sl... prototype of la-5 with gargrot and m-82a had 515 kph at sl (it's nominal power)... one of first prototypes of la-7 (with 3 b-20?) had 630+ kph at sl...

WHERE this in game?

where polished prototype of lagg-3 with 515 kph at sl? where experimental (or NOT?) yak-7b without gargrot with 553 kph at sl? where prototype of yak-9u with 600 kph at sl? etc etc etc...

only, respectively, around 585/552/605/498/575 kph at sl from quality tests of serial planes...

wth, some normal planes have now performance lower than mass serial plane without any reasons in addition to balance and vulnerability of some lovers of fast shooting 422465765354545 "stupid indians/mongols/russkies" for once...


of course, i talking about performances and FM in total...

and WHAT wrong if part of SOME planes can have - in 43-45 - normal performance almost as etalon?


well...

ok, lets see at german planes - in game now - etalon of g-2 with 2859! kg instead around 3030 and calculated? speed 537 kph at sl, fw 190a-5 with unlimited? 1.42 and performance of "gespachtelt und poliert" fw 190 with 4000 kg, etalon of f-2 with 515 kph at sl, etalon of g-6 with ONLY 1.42 ata, etc what i can't remember...

almost all planes - etalon or experimental planes even in 44-45...

of course, it's only my opinion and i can be wrong sometimes, but, think, i see funny and strange situation, in fact (any can try to debate with me with clear DOCUMENTS (without victorious deutschewochenschau, not about "wunderwaffe" or "352 victims" of hartmann) and, especially, info about BAL, REAL quality tests, defects etc etc etc, ie about REAL situation)...


well, in fact, now just old wrong stupid balance for ALL sides - many soviet planes in 41-43 have now better performance (498 kph at sl instead 475 for laggs of early series, 505-510 kph at sl instead 465-475 for serial mig-3, il-2/il-10 too fast at sl etc), in total, than it's been, but even in 43-45 no any absolutely etalons or prototypes...

well, in game need to be fix very many things...


and personally i very much hope for adequate modeling of, especially, fw 190 in the BoS and DCS...

La-5: 20kmh too fast at all altitudes (550kmh ingame @ SL vs 525kmh IRL, 600kmh ingame @ altitude vs 580kmh IRL)

apparently, you are right about speed at high altitudes, but in total you just don't know about series and types of la-5 with gargrot and their performances in total...

This was the very first version of the La-5 introduced around the Battle of Stalingrad and was lacking a lot in performance,

yes, apparently, in BOS one of main la-5 were la-5 of early series... APPARENTLY... and had some problems, like many soviet planes in this period...

and you are right, it's very first version which now just NO in il-2...

even the LaGG-3S66 was deemed a better fighter at the time!

mythical "s66" it's spring of 43...

La-5F: sea level speed ok

of course, normal speed of serial plane, from quality tests...

La-5FN: OK speed-wise for a '44 model, ingame it is labelled '43 and would thus need a 20kmh speed reduction

now - 585 kph at sl (forsazh) and around 3300 kg (328x.xx) - it's just la-5fn'43-44 with normal quality... but. of course, need little poorly AND little better planes...

La-7: sea level speed ok, speed at altitude 25kmh too fast (685 ingame vs 660 IRL)

briefly...

normal SERIAL la-7 it's around 613-620 kph at sl (in game 605), around 650 at 5000 (in game 660), around 675 at 6000 (in game 683)... around 20/24 ms at sl (in game 22/26)... around 18.5 sec at 1000 (in game 18.09)... around 3232 kg (in game 3244)... etc...

and need little worse version of this plane...


well... and i remembered about one fresh article about la-7, want see this, maybe some new info...


and, and i didn't want to offend anybody in my posts...

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Arrow

Bigger problem than small differences in speed or turn rate is a bug in flight model of La-5FN that is practically immune to stall and you can fly a cobra with it no problem, you can very simply stall La-7, La-5F or La-5, however La-5FN is different and you can pull the stick back as much as you want at any speed or altitude (without using rudder of course). It would be at least nice to have this FM bug corrected in 4.12 and tweak the performance of the whole breed to more realistic serial production levels for the next patch.

I think for some reason the elevator does not have full travel on the La-5FN while it does on all of the other types. There may be some programming difference as the La-5FN was the first of the series to be introduced into IL-2 and the La-5, La-5F, and La-7 were all introduced later (first appearing in Forgotten Battles if I'm not mistaken).

Shooting down Luftwaffe fighters is too easy, even in the LaGG-3, which was one of the worst planes of WW2 in RL.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Dan5ielle

Shooting down Luftwaffe fighters is too easy, even in the LaGG-3, which was one of the worst planes of WW2 in RL.

So how do you feel about a LaGG-3 Series 4 versus Bf109K-4 matchup eh? Or is this just too obvious

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by IceFire

I think for some reason the elevator does not have full travel on the La-5FN while it does on all of the other types. There may be some programming difference as the La-5FN was the first of the series to be introduced into IL-2 and the La-5, La-5F, and La-7 were all introduced later (first appearing in Forgotten Battles if I'm not mistaken).

That is what I thought too at first and I tested it a lot - but that doesn't seem to be the cause, the FN elevator has the same authority as other versions as you can pull same accelerations at certain speeds ... what I found was that at same G turn (lets say 3G at 400 kph, level turn at 2000 m, crimea map no cockpit view) FN turns at lower AOA than any other version, in the end practically never exceeding critical AOA that will stall you. I don't recall exact numbers as I did those tests some 3 years ago and sent my report + tracks to DT. I was given the answer, that FM will be overhauled with all Lavochkins at once, but I doubt it will happen any time soon ... so it would be nice to at least have current flight models inline.

[IceFire]

Got it. Glad to hear you we're able to put something together. Definitely valuable. Seems like revised FM was on the agena but time is short and some other types got the priority... Hopefully we'll see some fixes soonish.

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by IceFire

So how do you feel about a LaGG-3 Series 4 versus Bf109K-4 matchup eh? Or is this just too obvious

I think he might be talking about some modded version of MSCFS because survival is all but impossible when you're in a LaGG-3 fighting against Bf-109s, as it should be.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Treetop64

I think he might be talking about some modded version of MSCFS because survival is all but impossible when you're in a LaGG-3 fighting against Bf-109s, as it should be.

I think there was some trolling going on. I called it.

Any win in a LaGG-3 is usually hard fought and well deserved. It has its charms but it's a rough plane to be in. And agreed... as it should be.