Throwing some light on rates of turn

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

I went up to 7k, closed rads most of the way, leveled out, and hit full throttle. Three Spit 1s who were below and far behind me eventually caught up.
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make a vid?

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by pstyle

make a vid?

Perhaps I will in the future but I'm too busy the next month or so... plus I'm not sure my rig can handle FRAPS and still run the game at playable levels.

[camber]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Perhaps I will in the future but I'm too busy the next month or so... plus I'm not sure my rig can handle FRAPS and still run the game at playable levels.

Damnit Crumpp said much the same thing It's like doing the dishes

I don't think it's impossible that (as you say) that Spits and 109s are speed competitive at high alt. Whose to say that the in-flight gauges are actually giving correct information? We could have a Spit 1a and 109 at 20000ft with gauge data showing the 109 20% faster, but both the aircraft actually doing 100mph TAS (or 500mph TAS!) through the CloD air.

At this point it just gets confusing. For any aircraft, mismatched discussions can occur based on any combination of:

* Performance calculated from gauges
* Developer stated target performance
* Actual relative performance in game
* Wishful thinking relative performance in game (hopefully not too much of this )
* Optimistic historical performance
* Pessimistic historical performance
* Fantasy historical performance (hopefully not too much of this )

For me I think it is time to give up for now and just have fun with what it is and whatever it becomes.

camber

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by camber

* Fantasy historical performance (hopefully not too much of this )

camber

Don't worry there will be plenty of that once the Mustang makes an appearance (and to a lesser extent the fw190).

[CaptainDoggles]

There's really no conclusions to be drawn until we know what the atmospheric conditions are as modelled in the sim, and until they fix the shoddy state of the current flight model.

Once we have that we can run test flights, correct the data to standard conditions, and use that to compare to historical data.

[SEE]

I have had maybe three encounters with lone BFs at 20K+ co alt (with this beta patch) which ended with the BF109 disengaging or not resulting in a clear advantage for either as long as I maintained my alt and not give a guns opportunity during convergence.

Those encounters tended to be less aggressive with more separation, sort of plugging away untill someone makes an error so to speak, and if neither make a mistake the encounter can go on for some considerable time. I have no idea who the players were or their skill level.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by SEE

I have had maybe three encounters with lone BFs at 20K+ co alt (with this beta patch) which ended with the BF109 disengaging or not resulting in a clear advantage for either as long as I maintained my alt and not give a guns opportunity during convergence.

Those encounters tended to be less aggressive with more separation, sort of plugging away untill someone makes an error so to speak, and if neither make a mistake the encounter can go on for some considerable time. I have no idea who the players were or their skill level.

A real dogfight. Just think about having a wingman in that moment.

[Crumpp]

I climbed a Spitfire Mk I. It was difficult to trim the aircraft as the stability was pretty much nuetral on the longitudinal axis.

I felt like the oil temperature was high from the begining. The aircraft started the channel free flight at the limit of 90 degrees. I had to have the radiator open in level flight at 4 1/2lbs @ 2800 rpm. The Operating Notes tell the pilot to close the radiator in level flight and open it on climb only if needed.

The rpm changes were rather dramatic too. A small control input caused large deflections in the rpm making it difficult to smoothly and precisely change.

I did not check FTH or anything, just getting a feel for the aircraft.

I dove to 420IAS and did manage to lose an aileron but still could perform and full deflection assymetrical pullout. The pullout again resulted in a loop with some grayout at the top but no blackout.

[gimpy117]

and then there is the G.50....trimming it to fly high is a joke.

Down low at full bore you have to close the radiators because it's over cooling

up high though...it's almost overheating

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I climbed a Spitfire Mk I. It was difficult to trim the aircraft as the stability was pretty much nuetral on the longitudinal axis.

Do you find the climbrate correct?

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I felt like the oil temperature was high from the begining. The aircraft started the channel free flight at the limit of 90 degrees. I had to have the radiator open in level flight at 4 1/2lbs @ 2800 rpm. The Operating Notes tell the pilot to close the radiator in level flight and open it on climb only if needed.

Yes, with current Fm it is impossible to follow the manual regarding the temperatures. You will find yourself flying with the radiator fully open at most of the times. I will bother you none as the drag is not modelled, but still. You schould be able to climb at manual settings with the radiator 1/2 closed at 160mph IAS, fully opened rad will cause more drag and less climbing speed = more heat. Does not work this way in the sim I am afraid.

Above certain altitude (12-13k pre-patch), the coolant temperature will become the one to watch more. Unfortunately, you will not be able to fly at full power at FTH to compare your speed with the historical test data - as that will overheat and ruin your engine. Mixture does not work properly. And you have got wrong fuel. But othervise, everything is OK.

Originally Posted by Crumpp

The rpm changes were rather dramatic too. A small control input caused large deflections in the rpm making it difficult to smoothly and precisely change.

It was always a bit awkward and sensitive, but you can get used to it after a while and set the RPM quite precisely. What bothers me more post-patch is the throttle axis response. Did you not find it difficult to set the boost? It was alright in the previous patch, I am not sure what have they done to it.

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I did not check FTH or anything, just getting a feel for the aircraft.

Great stuff, do more testing please and let us know what you think.

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I dove to 420IAS and did manage to lose an aileron but still could perform and full deflection assymetrical pullout. The pullout again resulted in a loop with some grayout at the top but no blackout.

Structural damage is not modelled yet for any aircraft. It should be though. All that happens is you will lose parts of your ac that ou will miss later. As for blackout, try to trim tail heavy while pullout. I remember blacking out at few occasions while turning at high speed. I have no experience with diving as it was a bad idea trying to outdive a 109 in this sim. All I remember was to keep my speed within limit when attacking bombers (manoevrablility limit that is, not structural).