Windows 8 and CloD (Merged Threads) - Page 14

jojimbo · #**131** 11-03-2012, 07:49 PM

well i hope not Robtek, actually win8 is as good if not better than win7, i havent found anything out of the ordinary apart from CloD not working, every other game works, even B17 the mighty eighth

i am hoping luthiers and the team can make a quick patch before BoM, but i'll wait if i have to. i heard they were testing CloD on win8 already???

AirHog71 · #**132** 11-03-2012, 08:08 PM

There's nothing wrong with Win8 in terms of what it's meant to do. In fact in some small ways it's better than Win7 in terms of speed and stability around every day use and general applications.

The reason why commentators are saying Win8 will be a flop is because it's the first time MS have decided to lock down development, and this has many developers running for the hills.

While Win8 still has the traditional desktop which is an open development space, the new Metro environment is closed and this is what MS will be pushing and supporting in all future versions of Windows.

Now it's no secret games are the biggest drivers of PC innovations but it's this very industry that is saying that they're seriously contemplating leaving Windows. If you look at the Metro / Win App Store requirements, 99% of games wouldn't be able run on it because they don't comply with the rules (yes this is still after MS announced they'll allow R18 content), even 2011's game of the year Skyrim would not be able to be sold through the new Windows App Store.

Also Valve's Steam distribution system is not allowed to run in Metro. Now there are lots of people (including myself) who have bought a tonne of games using Steam, I've even bought games on Steam for which I have the DVD version, mainly because the DVD is damaged (thanks kids) and for just as a backup.

It for this reason I'm taking a wait and see approach for future versions of Windows. I think if MS don't change their minds, Win8 will be the new Millennium edition and Win7 will the new XP edition. Or in the case of Valve software, gamers will be flocking to Linux.

slm · #**133** 11-03-2012, 10:08 PM

But if you have Windows8 Pro, it's supposed to have the traditional desktop as well for running old apps - not just Metro (or whatever they call it now). Am I right?

PopBot · #**134** 11-03-2012, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slm

But if you have Windows8 Pro, it's supposed to have the traditional desktop as well for running old apps - not just Metro (or whatever they call it now). Am I right?

Yes, the traditional desktop is there in Windows 8 and works just the same minus the start button. Desktop apps are launched through the Metro interface just as they are launched from the Windows 7 start button. Steam works fine on the Windows 8 desktop, but it doesn't work in Metro. When you start Steam or traditional desktop games from Metro it will take you to the desktop and launch just like normal.

jojimbo · #**135** 11-03-2012, 11:37 PM

i bought a little app called "start8" it was only a couple of quid check it out
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/
i cannot deal with the closed OS it's claustraphobic,so this neat little app bypasses the metro interface completely, effectively loading straight to the desktop, as a pc gamer, and an avid steam user (84 games) i found no problems whatsoever, steam runs fine, in fact win8 offers backward compatibility to win95. the only game not to run in all my games is....(drumroll) CloD?

win8 is neater, faster, sharper, streamlined and above all stable, the horror stories and rumours are completely unfounded and with start8 i can mix half desktop and keep the metro apps interface too.

AirHog71 · #**136** 11-04-2012, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojimbo

... the horror stories and rumours are completely unfounded and with start8 i can mix half desktop and keep the metro apps interface too.

Yes but for how long?

Have a read of this article which is very pro Win8 and tell me where you think flight simulations will fit in?

Even now on MSDN you can't officially develop games for Windows 8 metro using DirectX or OpenGL. Everything points you to XBoX and Windows Phones / Tablets programming using C# / HTML5 / XNA. Nothing wrong with those for your Angry Bird type games, but for cutting edge flight simulations nothing beats C / C++ with DirectX / OpenGL. As it stands with games developed using Mono C# which are on sale now on Win8, they admit that those games take a performance hit of anywhere from 10% to 40% compared to the same game developed on C++ and DirectX. Hardly a great thing for a flight sim or an ARMA III game.

According to that article MS will eventually kill off the desktop, as many of the top game developers are predicting, so where will that leave games that need to push the limits of hardware, where will that leave the next chapter after BoM?

I guess I'm ranting on like the hobo on the street corner yelling Armageddon but I just don't think people, who want flight sims to continue, fully understand what Win8 represents.

MS needs to lift the Gestapo-Ness of Metro development because I firmly believe the desktop will be killed off eventually.

If you want to get a feel of what a Metro flight sim will be like have a look at Infinite Flight:

http://flyingdevstudio.blogspot.com.au/p/games.html?m=1

Hardly what I would call serious flight simming. Otherwise us flight simmer may very well be heading off to Linux world.

CWMV · #**137** 11-04-2012, 03:02 AM

This metro bs is a huge turn off.

AirHog71 · #**138** 11-04-2012, 04:48 AM

Ok I need to back track and correct my rant

Looks like you can write an Win App Store compliant game using C++ / DirectX

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr.../br229580.aspx

Edit: Have learned that this is managed c++ / cli, so the performance still wouldn't be as good as unmanaged c++.

mcdaniels · #**139** 11-04-2012, 07:50 AM

Hi,
I think it is up to the devs whether they support only metro or stick to the standard desktop. If most of the devs do not support metro, ms can push but will loose in the end.

As a Linuxuser I will have absolutly no probs when games, steam ... convert to Linux.

The question why only CloD does not work still persists.

Yesterday I thought of configuring dualboot with win8 and win7, just for CloD...

jojimbo · #**140** 11-04-2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirHog71

Yes but for how long?

Have a read of this article which is very pro Win8 and tell me where you think flight simulations will fit in?

Even now on MSDN you can't officially develop games for Windows 8 metro using DirectX or OpenGL. Everything points you to XBoX and Windows Phones / Tablets programming using C# / HTML5 / XNA. Nothing wrong with those for your Angry Bird type games, but for cutting edge flight simulations nothing beats C / C++ with DirectX / OpenGL. As it stands with games developed using Mono C# which are on sale now on Win8, they admit that those games take a performance hit of anywhere from 10% to 40% compared to the same game developed on C++ and DirectX. Hardly a great thing for a flight sim or an ARMA III game.

According to that article MS will eventually kill off the desktop, as many of the top game developers are predicting, so where will that leave games that need to push the limits of hardware, where will that leave the next chapter after BoM?

I guess I'm ranting on like the hobo on the street corner yelling Armageddon but I just don't think people, who want flight sims to continue, fully understand what Win8 represents.

MS needs to lift the Gestapo-Ness of Metro development because I firmly believe the desktop will be killed off eventually.

If you want to get a feel of what a Metro flight sim will be like have a look at Infinite Flight:

http://flyingdevstudio.blogspot.com.au/p/games.html?m=1

Hardly what I would call serious flight simming. Otherwise us flight simmer may very well be heading off to Linux world.

very good post and a great article AirHog71,
win 8 cost me a £25 upgrade, i don't use metro per se, i dont have an iphone or ipad etc, and for normal desktop computing and gaming win8 does the job (apart from CloD)

but if ever MS were to patch into the OS restrictive measures binding me to Metro, and using the Windows platform as an OS harmed pc gaming i would immediatedly uninstall it, and move to an OS that better met my needs, I am also very vindictive, so if MS showed me no respect for what I required as a customer, i would definately NOT reinstall win7, theres no point as the OS is dead. i would look elsewhere on the principle.
However MS failed big time on their latest flight endeavour "Flight" and there really isn't anything out there in real sim to compete against MSF-X (which works btw on win

and i suppose i could dual boot my win7 to run any applications metro intimidates

If Luthier and his team release BoM and there is still only up to win7 compatibility, i might then relent and dual boot the system, but why should i have to? people here say things like "dont expect the devs to do anything soon on win8" but MS sure arn't going to either are they, most win7,XP,vista,ME,and win98/95 programs and apps work, the reason CloD doesn't MUST be Luthiers funky code? just sayin' so i am sure the dev team are already working on win8 compatibility for BoM, and when it rolls out it will sort out the CloD problem, i can understand them not having the funds to dedicate work to it, and am happily prepared to wait (been waiting since Win8 RP)
At the end of the day, if Metro kills c++ gaming on MS OS, people like us, gamers, modders, will just roll back to a previous system, or dedicate another PC to real gaming.