Head Tracking with Cliffs of Dover

[swiss]

Originally Posted by robtek

Here is a excerpt of the Freetrack Homepage:

Bro, it's not like this is gonna stop him.

[Korn]

Originally Posted by GHarris

I initially thought that Wolf_Rider's posts were genuine questions. But by the time I came to write my post on the 10th page I suspected he was just trolling on Naturalpoint's behalf.

Yup exactly my thoughts.


Anyway. Cutting deals with publishers in order to remove the competition IS illegal. That's what anti-trust laws are for. Just a few years ago Intel ate a 1 billion euro fine from the European Commission for making deals with the likes of HP, Dell and other integrators so that they will not use AMD parts. In the US they just settled with nVidia and will be paying them 1.46 billion USD, after they just payed AMD (in the US, after a Federal Trade Commission settlement) 1.26 billion USD.

More info (chronological):
AMD and Intel Settle Their Differences
Intel Settles With the Federal Trade Commission
Intel Settles With NVIDIA: More Money, Fewer Problems, No x86

So, to sum things up:
- Natural Point has made and is still making deals with publishers in order to not allow any other head tracking devices to work in those respective games;
- while this may sound as legitimate bussiness practice, it is in fact a monopolistic behaviour and illegal in the European Union as well as in the United States, as exemplified above.


As i said in another thread, the reason Natural Point does not have (as yet) any legal problems as a consequence of these issues is the fact that they are activating inside a very young, small, niche market, a market with low visibility and they haven't come (yet!) under scrutiny.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Korn

- Natural Point has made and is still making deals with publishers in order to not allow any other head tracking devices to work in those respective games;

cutting out the competition... anti-trust laws? I totally agree

as for the quote.. that's a rather loud accusation you're making there, do you have anything you can back that accusation up with?

[swiss]

Antitrust - competition?
FT is opensource, to operate in a market you'd have to make money by selling your product.
FT is more like a club than a company.

Imho none those arguments are valid.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by swiss

Antitrust - competition?
FT is opensource, to operate in a market you'd have to make money by selling your product.
FT is more like a club than a company.

Imho none those arguments are valid.

I'd agree that none of those arguments are vaild as well, Swiss

But I believe Korn was talking about NP, not FT

[Korn]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

cutting out the competition... anti-trust laws? I totally agree

as for the quote.. that's a rather loud accusation you're making there, do you have anything you can back that accusation up with?

I'm making no accusation, i'm simply stating the facts as i know them. Bohemia Interactive had such a deal with Natural Point, as stated as one of their guys on the official forums and as it was well known inside the community. Their forums were also haunted by a bunch of trolls and even NP employees extremely vocal and aggressive when there was any Free Track talking. They went away when BI shut down the deal and included Free Track support with a patch last year.
Natural Point has another such deal with Eagle Dynamics (LOMAC & DCS developer and publisher), however i got to be honest, i don't know if either part has admited to that (it is possible they did, i don't read their forums much).

The Bohemia Interactive story is easy to check. And everybody knows about the other one, just ask... I'm sure there are others, but i don't know anything about the driving sims, maybe someone else is more knowledgeable.

[Wolf_Rider]

Korn, no, you made an accusation... let's be clear about that and you made a loud noise about anti-trust... all that is rather serious and what you've come up with is hearsay to back it.

you might recall the bohemia experience was the equivalent of a bunch of "boys" (in support of FT) bursting in through the, door, smashing glass, turning over tables and slapping the women. It was when it was learned that FT had not approached those developers in any manner, that the situation sort of quietened down. Bohemia forum went through a horrible time until then.

Perhaps you could check was to whether DCS made their own interface for other trackers to use or used NP's SDK to create it. If they used the SDK, then NP was (I assume) well within their rights to insist anything created from it not be used.

[swiss]

Again:
FT is Free
TIR is a company.

In fact there is only one company serving this market - ergo no competition.
If there is only one company they are free to cut a deal - I see no option to apply an antitrust law.

Does it suck for the consumer? Sure I don't like TIR either, however it's not illegal.

[Wolf_Rider]

Fair enough

[Korn]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Korn, no, you made an accusation... let's be clear about that and you made a loud noise about anti-trust... all that is rather serious and what you've come up with is hearsay to back it.

rofl you're funny. Hearsay? So you pretend you're worried about the monopoly bussiness, and when i provide you enough information to go and check for yourself you dare accusing me of hearsay? Did you actually read what i posted? Man what a crappy job you got to do . PR for Natural Point posing as regular user... I actually feel sorry for you. Yeah i know, you're just a guy, just another guy concerned that Free Track is stealing NP bussiness and violates its (nonexistent) patents, like any honest citizen. Man you crack me up . Feel free to talk to your peers from now on, i'm sure there's more than one of you, or at least more than one user , i think i got all the laugh you can give.


swiss, you are mistaken, antitrust laws are concerned not only with actually protecting fair competition between companies, but also (maybe even primary) with protecting the consumers. Please search the web for further info, as well as consulting any specialized professional (lawyer or economist)... This is very basic stuff.


Before i leave this thread for good, as i'm sure any unbiased individual has already enough data to form his/her own opinion, i want to apologize for any mistake i made, english is not my native language.

Good day, gentlemen.