The Battle of Britain Was The First Defeat For The German Luftwaffe.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

So Germany invading the rest of europe was not an act of was? I see......... so the treaty of Versaile which was drawn up after the Germans last act of aggression and subsequent defeat was just 'unfair'?, like nobody had the right to stand in their way while they did whatever they wanted, arrogant ***t's

Waiiiit bit here. Back in 1939, didn't the UK back then look like this?



I will be the first to admit that I personally am very glad that the BE entered and fought this war to its end, but nothing of that fondness has anything to do with common english arguments about how it all started, the fingerpointing about baddies and egocentric breast polishing.
And do not even let me come to "agression" in WW1. In this regard the UK started histories first full blown propaganda campain against another country and that has influence to this very day.

Some of the tones in this thread, however, are uncalled for. The war ended over 60 years ago and enough blood was shed for generations. Nobody posting in this thread attacked or defended anything in WW2 or can claim for himself the deeds of his/her countrymen present or past, positive or negative, so I suggest getting the stick out from where no light goes. All for an open debate about this era in history but folks should leave those nationalistic butthurt signs at home.

[SEE]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

#

I assure you, our current military leaders all have hypothetical plans (which they update every so often) for wars in all kinds of places they have no intention of fighting (at the moment).

Hmm....depends on how much oil they have and what we have left?

[bongodriver]

No he Germans weren't the land grabbing crazies, they were just the ones who put a land grabbing genocidal maniac in charge and wholeheartedly backed him up by fighting a war for him.

I don't need a history lesson, you can try to justify Germany's reasons all you like but what they started in WWII was wrong on every level, if Germany was just trying to improve it's situation economically then why the he'll did it spend all that money on a genocidal war machine, surely tanks and planes don't grow on trees, I know some costs were cut by using slave labour to build it.......admirable.

[Kongo-Otto]

You do need a history lesson, you didn't even now that Hitler wasn't elected, he was put in Charge by Hindenburg.
Once again you have proven what an sorry pathetic loudmouth you are.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Germany, while strongly militaristic and a bit naive in terms of politics, was not the blatant land-grabbing crazies Churchill made them out to be.

Erm, sorry but......what?

Ok, they had a point with the Rhineland, the Sudetenlanland and the Danzig corridor.

Czeckoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, France, 'Oops looks like Britain doesn't want to play!', rest of Poland, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Greece, North Africa, some more I forget and Russia.

They may not have been 'crazies' but landgrabbing they most certainly were.

Oh sorry, it was referred to as 'Lebensraum'. Sorry, forgot.

[NedLynch]

Cheesehawk, I do believe I remember from history class in school that the ballot for the annexation of Austria read something like this:

Are you for the annexation of Austria and our Fuehrer A.H.?

They connected support for Mr. Hilter (love Monty Python) and the annexation and I do not think those votes were cast with any measure of secrecy either, so of course the Nazis got the votes and could officially call the result the will of the german people, since nobody dared to vote "no".

Now Germans generally are good, hardworking, straightforward people who have a great sense for right and wrong. This coming to power of a bunch of genocidal maniacs can happen anywhere in the world given the right set of cicumstances.
The Nazis were the scum of the earth, but they were not stupid, ruthless and just plain evil, but not stupid. They managed to exploit the situation in Germany to it's fullest and I suspect with financial backing of....well, who would have backed those bastards? Somebody did for sure.

To fully explain how they came to power would need another extremely lenghty thread.

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Each of those examples was after Britain and France had already declared war on them, and were in turn ways to secure needed supplies/routes to attack (except Greece, which I believe was in response to failed Italian campaign). Germany would most likely have still invaded Denmark, but Norway was a pre-emptive occupation of which England was planning the same thing. Of course, we know why Belgium and Holland were attacked, for routes to knock France out of the war. France was already a hostile power, having first declared war on Germany. Poland was a German territory pre-WWI (with large portions being Prussian, the historic lands of the Junkers, and ancestors of the German military complex). The others were first taken by Russia, Britain's ally.

This thread, as interesting as it is, should be in Pilot's Lounge please!

I do have to disagree on this. Hitler and his Nazi Scum Bag Party definitely had "Lebensraum" in the East on their agenda from the beginning and their main thought was about Poland and likely already Russia (but here there might be also this rivalty between two large despotistic ideologies here). The other conquests however came more from circumstances. The France campaign and the campaign against Britain was to put these two allies of Poland (and later of Russia) out off the war before turning on Russia. This of course is no excuse.

I for my part am happy that these scumbags are gone and even the short 12 years they ruled have been too long.

Another word on "being proud of one's ancestors": In full logic these also need to be ashamed of some deeds of the ancestors or they should be called cherry-pickers. But my guess is these same people who are proud of their ancestors (long dead and therefore unable to appreciate it) just are illogical and irational while some simply can not admit it and get at least close and often beyond insulting people while trying to find a rational reason for their "being proud to be xy" (as if this was an achievement while their birthplace was just pure aleatory event).

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Agreed, but Germany didn't bite, remember, it was the Allies who declared war, not Germany.

Oh they bit allright! And got thier teeth knocked out for it!

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

They just failed to see the determination the Allies had to prevent Germany from regaining it's lost territories and peoples.

They just failed to see alot of things

[Kongo-Otto]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Again, given that we had our cowardly english asses chased across the channel and we left all our toys behind, sounds like we had nothing left but tea to offer, so why let a little puddle prevent the opportunity for a delicious hot beverage.

yes it took a bit of time to prepare for the Normandy landings, after all we had all that time to drink tea and do bugger all else, not like we were fighting anywhere else in the world now is it....oh wait..

After Dunkirk you didn't had more left but tea to offer!!
Otherwise why should Churchill Lend & Lease some 50 war weary US Destroyers?
Ah yes because you ran out even on tea.
And your British Army sucked on every major Battle until the USA showed up at the ETO, the same is for the PTO!
But that's maybe because they didn't had allways Canadians and Australians on their side, they know how to fight!

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Kongo-Otto

After Dunkirk you didn't had more left but tea to offer!!
Otherwise why should Churchill Lend & Lease some 50 war weary US Destroyers?
Ah yes because you ran out even on tea.
And your British Army sucked on every major Battle until the USA showed up at the ETO, the same is for the PTO!
But that's maybe because they didn't had allways Canadians and Australians on their side, they know how to fight!

Ah OK, so you Germans just sacrificed a few LW pilots to us Brits for a bit of sport just to make us feel better.....I see, I guess it was the same in North Africa too, us poor Brits spent the whole time moaning about how the Germans kept taking all the best spots on the beach with their towels, so you graciously retreated and left us to it.....thanks, I suppose the comando raids we made in Norway were just a clear illustration of how cowardly the Brits could be, war weary US destroyers......way I see it they weren't seeing much war at the time so somebody may as well have been using them.

DISCLAIMER.....for the next pedant that wants to point out my use of the words us/we, may I please remind you I made no suggestion I was out there fighting the war myself.