UFO's and extra-terrestrial life

[Wolf_Rider]

Stop baiting for religous or political discussion and stop taking the bait in responding

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by Lixma

"Nothing is real to me?". I don't in all honesty know how you arrived there. But anyway....



I hold no belief either way in the existence of a god. There might be one, there might not. As to the peculiar varieties of god - Zeus, Yaweh, Odin, Xenu...these gods I do not believe exist.

Amongst other things I see them as culturally specific projections; just as a pack of wolves would endow their god with a perfect nose, so too our own people endow their gods with perfect reflections of their own favoured attributes.



I've no idea whether he was or not. I don't believe he was in any way divine, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to discover that there indeed was a real flesh and blood man called Jesus who caused a bit of a stir way back when.

Give it another 2000 years and you will be amazed at who people believe is divine. Probably L. Ron Hubbard or Lady Gaga.

OK good I wasnt sure if you were being honest in your skeptisism (sp).
From what I get your most likely an agnostic like myself. I however give eye witness testimony from credible people more weight than you. Especially when there are multiple witnesses to same sighting. Not everyone is crazy or out to make a buck. And lots of theoretical physicists believe now that its likely possible to travel light years away by bending space and time, we are just to primitive to figure it out now.

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by Oldschool61

I however give eye witness testimony from credible people more weight than you. Especially when there are multiple witnesses to same sighting.

Okay, I'm taking a risk here but i'm going to bring up a religious event witnessed by thousands of people. Now, this has nothing to do with religion so don't go off on one. It concerns the nature and reliability of eye witness testimony.

The day the sun went mental*....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

I will wager that you and I don't believe for a second that on the 13 October 1917 the sun actually....

....appeared as an opaque, spinning disc in the sky.

And yet presumably there were quite a few people in that huge crowd who would easily qualify under your standard of 'credibility'. Still, you will be inclined, as would I, to explain the event in naturalistic terms. Perhaps as a mass delusion, an optical illusion or an instance of people seeing what they expected to see...etc. I very much doubt you will entertain the thought that perhaps God really did make the sun dance for the faithful on that day.

However, when it comes to UFOs all this seemingly goes out of the window. Why is that? Why, in the case of religious visions (of which there are many) would you immediately look for a natural, down to earth explanation; but when it comes to testimony concerning un-identified flying objects you have your heart set, it appears, on advocating probably the most out-landish explanation imaginable!

Not everyone is crazy or out to make a buck.

True. But the fact is that UFOlogy is filled to the gills with crackpots and charlatans. For anyone who is truly trying to get a handle on the phenomena they have my respect and sympathies.

And lots of theoretical physicists believe now that its likely possible to travel light years away by bending space and time...

Don't confuse possibility with either probability or evidential support. The fact that wormholes may be theoretically possible in no way constitutes supporting evidence that aliens are using them to get here.

....we are just to primitive to figure it out now.

This notion of 'primitive' brings up a point I don't recall reading in this thread so far. Have you noticed how the alleged space-craft have evolved over the years? We've gone from the 1950's hub-cap style flying saucers to modern day stealthy 'black triangles'. When I was growing up in the 80's the common description for UFOs was as a 'cigar-shaped craft'. Similarly the descriptions of extra-terrestrials given by 'contactees' have undergone an obvious evolution.

How to explain this? One way to explain this is to take the testimony at face value and begin categorising all the various ETs and their ships into 'races' or 'species'. A somewhat more realistic approach is to explain this variety as the projections of culture upon a confusing and at times frightening phenomena.



* El dia el Loco Sol (or something like that...)

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by Lixma

Okay, I'm taking a risk here but i'm going to bring up a religious event witnessed by thousands of people. Now, this has nothing to do with religion so don't go off on one. It concerns the nature and reliability of eye witness testimony.

The day the sun went mental*....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

I will wager that you and I don't believe for a second that on the 13 October 1917 the sun actually....





* El dia el Loco Sol (or something like that...)

he magic sun is prettty easily explained with science. First problem is all the people there were there to see something so write there they are tainted. read the skeptics and scientific explanation...

"Stuart Campbell, writing for the 1989 edition of Journal of Meteorology, postulated that a cloud of stratospheric dust changed the appearance of the sun on 13 October, making it easy to look at, and causing it to appear yellow, blue, and violet. In support of his postulation, Mr. Campbell reports that a blue and reddened sun was reported in China as documented in 1983. Mr. Campbell's article does not attempt to provide evidence that might explain the reported zigzagging of the sun towards the earth[29].

Joe Nickell, a skeptic and investigator of paranormal phenomena, claims that the position of the phenomenon, as described by the various witnesses, is at the wrong azimuth and elevation to have been the sun[30]. He suggests the cause may have been a sundog. Sometimes referred to as a parhelion or "mock sun", a sundog is a relatively common atmospheric optical phenomenon associated with the reflection/refraction of sunlight by the numerous small ice crystals that make up cirrus or cirrostratus clouds. A sundog is, however, a stationary phenomenon, and would not explain the reported appearance of the "dancing sun". Nickell suggests an explanation for this and other similar phenomena may lie in temporary retinal distortion, caused by staring at the intense light and/or by the effect of darting the eyes to and fro so as to avoid completely fixed gazing (thus combining image, afterimage and movement)."

[Lixma]

You've missed the point.