Very short development update

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

I never saw Maddox Games as "Pros". More like nerds like us that want to make this Sim happen with lots of personal sacrifices involved. They clearly are not in the game development for purely moneys sake, else they would have gone the Silent Hunter V route a long time ago, or the RoF route, charging for individual airplanes.

That's quite a romantic view, but far from the truth. Maybe it was in the very beginning, and god knows how long it took them to develop the first IL-2 engine, but over all those years they could have invested their results better. Sometime the arrogance and egotism of one is cause of a lot of trouble, knowing when to step down in favour of a professional who can manage things in a better direction is a hard step to take, but sometimes a necessary one. And I'm saying this with no bitter feelings, it's just an objective observation on the conduct of a company (because Maddox Games is a company).

I understand your point very well, but it applies more to a big publisher like Ubisoft or EA, not a small russian Sim development team that does not get paid for any extras, especially not for diretly communicating with an abusive fanbase that tends to rip of arms when presented a little finger and is full of an entitelment attitude that was unheared of just 20 years ago. In the past, development updates just caused people to flame even more because their specific problem was not adressed. In all seriousness, Maddox Games is still consiting of human beings, in doubt seriously overworked and tired human beings. Them not being able or willing to respond in a careful manner with all the sh+tstorms on this forum is not really so wonderous.

we bypassed the publisher BS here, we went straight to the source. What do you know about what/how/when they get paid, and why would it matter? Remember that what's a hobby to us is a job to them, they aren't doing it in their spare time.

Every software house is made of human beings, some are managed more efficiently than others. There is a lot of cloud networking being done today (look at the excellent Daidalos Team), so it's not even a matter of having to be in the office or speak the same language.

[bongodriver]

see you on sunday.....I'm off to Greece......though I'll have my ipad so I might see you before

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

see you on sunday.....I'm off to Greece......though I'll have my ipad so I might see you before

have fun Bongo, and don't forget to bring some drachmas, you never know!

[ramstein]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

see you on sunday.....I'm off to Greece......though I'll have my ipad so I might see you before

If turkey were attacked from the rear, would greece help?

[Allons!]

Originally Posted by ramstein

If turkey were attacked from the rear, would greece help?

its more likely the greek were attacked from the rear.. just to give this thread a sudden twist, hehe

[Heliocon]

Bad delivery...

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

Bad delivery...

Story of my life......

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

That's quite a romantic view, but far from the truth. Maybe it was in the very beginning, and god knows how long it took them to develop the first IL-2 engine, but over all those years they could have invested their results better. Sometime the arrogance and egotism of one is cause of a lot of trouble, knowing when to step down in favour of a professional who can manage things in a better direction is a hard step to take, but sometimes a necessary one. And I'm saying this with no bitter feelings, it's just an objective observation on the conduct of a company (because Maddox Games is a company).



we bypassed the publisher BS here, we went straight to the source. What do you know about what/how/when they get paid, and why would it matter? Remember that what's a hobby to us is a job to them, they aren't doing it in their spare time.

Every software house is made of human beings, some are managed more efficiently than others. There is a lot of cloud networking being done today (look at the excellent Daidalos Team), so it's not even a matter of having to be in the office or speak the same language.

Man, I have worked in the industry myself. And attitudes like yours is exactly the reason why I left it. Game development is one of the toughest jobs out there from all the ones available, chronically underpaid and overtime being the excepted norm without compensation payment. That was even the case in Germany, I do not even want to know how this works in Russia. You only enter the business because you have fun developing games in general, for sure not for the money.

If you can't accept the simulation business being a very rough and small one, instead expecting german Mittelstand like cynism and clinical performance you have the wrong hobby, that simple.

[Querer]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Man, I have worked in the industry myself. And attitudes like yours is exactly the reason why I left it. Game development is one of the toughest jobs out there from all the ones available, chronically underpaid and overtime being the excepted norm without compensation payment. That was even the case in Germany, I do not even want to know how this works in Russia. You only enter the business because you have fun developing games in general, for sure not for the money.

If you can't accept the simulation business being a very rough and small one, instead expecting german Mittelstand like cynism and clinical performance you have the wrong hobby, that simple.

You're right, but we can still expect from the company selling software to do the best job possible. If this is not possible due to whatever reason, the customer decide whether to buy it or not, so basically it is each ones own fault in buying the software although it is crap, especially with forums filled with threads about the bugs of the software. However, in today's world, no one of the developer has then to complain about not making enough money due to low sell rates, that's life as well. If they do not want to keep up with the standarts we are used to, bad luck, sooner or later they are not able to sell anything anymore. Sadly, I see more and more companies drifting towards mean quality standarts and more and more people who accept this and even justify this by comments as above. I am sorry for the poor working conditions in this branch of software development, but honestly, I also have to take extra care that I do not do anything wrong in my job, even if this goes with unpaid extra hours. So what? Quality is what makes the products more valuable over others, if you don't want to stick to this, it's your choice but you have to life with the outcome.
Comments like the one from Luthier are funny in a way, as we all know that they try hard to get this new sound engine implemented and are fed up with all the questions about the progress, but if we are absolutely strict, comments like this are just a offense to us customers as a proper sound engine should have been part of the initial release product. As already some people mentioned, for other products we are as well not willing to accept an unfinished one being sold as finished. And I am sure, that Luthier would as well complain if his OS would be as buggy as his game. The difference? The big company behind the OS? Simply not a valuable argument, as there are example of small software companies offering products almost free of bugs...
Well, enough text now, I belong to the group of customers buying CloD with knowing about all the bugs and I still got several hours fun out of it and thanks to the fact that there are other things in life, I am waiting for the updates

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Querer

You're right, but we can still expect from the company selling software to do the best job possible. If this is not possible due to whatever reason, the customer decide whether to buy it or not, so basically it is each ones own fault in buying the software although it is crap, especially with forums filled with threads about the bugs of the software. However, in today's world, no one of the developer has then to complain about not making enough money due to low sell rates, that's life as well. If they do not want to keep up with the standarts we are used to, bad luck, sooner or later they are not able to sell anything anymore. Sadly, I see more and more companies drifting towards mean quality standarts and more and more people who accept this and even justify this by comments as above. I am sorry for the poor working conditions in this branch of software development, but honestly, I also have to take extra care that I do not do anything wrong in my job, even if this goes with unpaid extra hours. So what? Quality is what makes the products more valuable over others, if you don't want to stick to this, it's your choice but you have to life with the outcome.
Comments like the one from Luthier are funny in a way, as we all know that they try hard to get this new sound engine implemented and are fed up with all the questions about the progress, but if we are absolutely strict, comments like this are just a offense to us customers as a proper sound engine should have been part of the initial release product. As already some people mentioned, for other products we are as well not willing to accept an unfinished one being sold as finished. And I am sure, that Luthier would as well complain if his OS would be as buggy as his game. The difference? The big company behind the OS? Simply not a valuable argument, as there are example of small software companies offering products almost free of bugs...
Well, enough text now, I belong to the group of customers buying CloD with knowing about all the bugs and I still got several hours fun out of it and thanks to the fact that there are other things in life, I am waiting for the updates

I think you are saddling the horse from the rear here. It is not like we buy this Sim out of pure altruism. Ppl here "want" that Sim and given there is no alternative out there, argueing on a "oh, so they failed, bad luck, let's move on" is not exactly the most smart way to apporach this issue. Sure, if you go by this "customer is always right" principle, then you certainly have a point. But in it's final consequence, that would mean, no Sim at all. Purely personal opinion here, but I rather have a flawed product with ppl working on it to solve the issue then no product at all. And it is not as if those folks, as many times metioned before, do not have a history of delivering.

Imho, a lot of trust and perspective here is simply destoyed by people that obviously consider market principles of a higher value then having a flight Sim.