4.12 development update discussion and feedback

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by pencon

Hopefully one day they can put some actual ground troops in the sim . It would be awesome to be able to strafe soldiers who are shooting back at you (along with blood and gore effects )Also hands and feet in the cockpit view. I realize that's asking too much but it would be cool .

Blood and gore effects might mess with the game's ESRB rating. It's simple enough to just have dead people without making the game look like an explosion in a ketchup factory. This is one reason why we'll probably never see animal-drawn transport in the game.

Large numbers of moving people might also slow down frame rates.

[SPAD-1949]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Blood and gore effects might mess with the game's ESRB rating. It's simple enough to just have dead people without making the game look like an explosion in a ketchup factory. This is one reason why we'll probably never see animal-drawn transport in the game.
Large numbers of moving people might also slow down frame rates.

I would also vote for marching colons to attack.

As long as the gore effects are built mildly like in DBW, seeing only sunk in dead pilots and some blood spills on the plexi shields, I think it is ok.
(it bugs me a little that we still have just a red to black out instead of clusters of skin and brain on the windshield before blacking out, but that would be rated 16+)
This 12 jear old kids all watch South Park as well as Band of Brothers and somehow survive without psychological trauma, as far as I can judge from my sons and his friends adolescence.
I think this discussion item is somehow bigot and way overrated.

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by SPAD-1949

I would also vote for marching colons to attack.

LoL! Sounds like something from a Sam Raimi movie! 'Attack of the Marchng Colons!" Ha!

On a serious note, infantry or groups of military people of any type with DM would benefit the game.

Originally Posted by SPAD-1949

As long as the gore effects are built mildly like in DBW, seeing only sunk in dead pilots and some blood spills on the plexi shields, I think it is ok.

I think this blood fest is over-egged massively. People have been watching to many horror flicks or Tarantino movies. Which brings me to this:

Originally Posted by SPAD-1949

(it bugs me a little that we still have just a red to black out instead of clusters of skin and brain on the windshield before blacking out, but that would be rated 16+)

Mate, if your brains were scattered across the windshield I seriously doubt you'd be particularly bothered about the pretty red patterns they're smearing across the plexiglass as 10-1 odds you'd be *slightly* DEAD.

Wounds which spread or splash such copious quantities of blood around would by their very nature be caused by large high explosive round wounds to areas of an arterial nature, likely to be at least highly incapacitating if not fatal. Your virtual Il-2 pilot is unlikely to be around long enough to worry about the Rorschach ink blot test he's just sprayed across his windshield.

Other wounds caused by bullets are likely to be far less dramatic given the layers of clothing and harness' that help staunch and contain the fluids.

Besides which, what does this accomplish ingame? It looks cool? Immersion?

Right.

If you wander round thinking the sloshing around of large quantities of type O Negative is cool, I'd recommend you to a shrink. Having been exposed to one bloody accident were a man died I, personally could quite happily go to my grave without seeing things of that ilk again.

As for immersion - what? Sorry this argument makes bugger all sense to me. You might as well argue for me to have my girlfriend standing behind with a shotgun so that when I get hit in game she blows pieces of me and the surrounding furniture apart; just so I can get a bit closer to the real terror!

Please.

This 12 jear old kids all watch South Park as well as Band of Brothers and somehow survive without psychological trauma, as far as I can judge from my sons and his friends adolescence.
I think this discussion item is somehow bigot and way overrated.

De-senstisation to violence discussions are well beyond the purview of this forum and this thread. Let's not start that please. It's a massive can of worms and unless you've got a long list of qualifications in child psychological medicine then none of us are in a position to make knowledgable opinions on the matter.

[SPAD-1949]

Well actually I've seen people I knew and people I did not know die, mostly from Vehicular accidents, except one old lady who fell out her window while cleaning it. Some 3 good old european storeys deep.
I wondered why there was no helmet obligatory for Car drivers back the days we cut out the victims of their wercks ad collected what they lost in their tincans.

By the way, there is some chance you survive brain damage, as well as I was told by my former shift boss, that he had a case where a Lady with an open SBT(?) (SHT in german) remained conscious but died on the way to the hospital.

No wonder that alcohol is a serious issue with the fire brigades (FFW in german)

We were 18 then and I think, as I watch my son on his civil service in an ambulance car, he does not take psychological harm and neither did all my nephews on this Job.
They told me, they have seen the same stuff I did and personally I think, civil service on an ambulance is more likely to make a man out of you than military duty does.

So I think Gore effects could be connected to nearly full real settings, because younger then 17 kids hardly play full real or nearly full real.

Today I flew a Ju88 mission and wondered about the spills because there was no mild red tinting of the screen, I was not wounded, but I found out it was my rear gunner, which got hit.
I loved this kind of immersion.

[Juri_JS]

I don't need any blood effects, but it would be a good idea to reintroduce slumped down crew members, so we have a visual indication that a pilot or gun position is taken out and we no longer have to waste ammo shooting at it. In contrast to blood it won't affect the ESRB rating.

[Bolelas]

+1. We dont need blood, we just need to know they are killed.

[secretone]

It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it.Robert E. Lee, Statement at the Battle of Fredericksburg (13th December 1862)
US-Confederate general (1807 - 1870)

[BrassEm]

Originally Posted by Bolelas

+1. We dont need blood, we just need to know they are killed.

Agreed!

A slumped body, or the body disappearing would be enough to convey that aircrew are taken out when viewed from a distance when flying an aircraft. The AI running from a straffed vehicle column is enough to indicate they are kaput. A vehicle is a higher priority target than an individual soldier. Fields of soldiers would only increase FPS overhead.

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by SPAD-1949

(it bugs me a little that we still have just a red to black out instead of clusters of skin and brain on the windshield before blacking out, but that would be rated 16+)

The rating you elude to is beside the point. The sim simply doesn't need to go that far.

Some things are better left to the imagination.

[GF_Mastiff]

any chance of damage from hit boxes reduced to a more confined area? in other words can you make more critical systems damage instead of seeing one hit to one block like engine?

maybe multiple system areas if the engine allows?
Like in CLOD?