Would you be willing to pay for additional contend?

[Zoom2136]

It is in my mind the only viable business model for a sim such as CoD.

I for one would pay for aircrafts/grounds/sea objects.

OTOH I think that missions or campains can be made by the comunity.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

fact.. flight sims are a very small part of the gaming market

fact.. flight sim users demand cutting edge graphics and high fidelity flight models (read realism), which does not come cheap wrt software development

fact.. there is more money to be made and easier money to be made making 'silly' games (read non-flight sim games)

fact.. Oleg's past flight sim spoiled a lot of people into thinking flight sims have to provide free support, updates and addons for 10+ years, when in fact this type of support is the exception not the rule in gaming.

fact.. there is only three ways to get 'additional content'

1) closed system, where you pay the original sim maker for addons and hope for a free one from time to time
2) open system, where you pay for 3rd party addons and hope for a free one from time to time
3) hacked system: where you download a 'free' addons and hope for the best

With that said..

I think the best way is option 1

Where there is only one methodology to the FM and DM, in that the other two methods can result in many different versions of the 'same plane', worse yet in option 3 you can end up with many different versions of the 'same game'. And as noted above, the flight sim community is a small (nitch) one realitive to the gaming community as a whole, thus any splits hurts everyone.

Oh and the other nice thing about option one and even two is it has a filtering effect.. In essence weeding out the kid-os who have to go ask mama for the credit card to buy the addons. With the hope being that mama says no!

[von Pilsner]

fact.. many people who enjoy WWII flight sims are not computer literate and don't play other games. (you forgot one, Ace )

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Oh and the other nice thing about option one and even two is it has a filtering effect.. In essence weeding out the kid-os who have to go ask mama for the credit card to buy the addons. With the hope being that mama says no!

I get what you are saying, but I would like more people to play WWII flight sims, not less.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by von Pilsner

fact.. many people who enjoy WWII flight sims are not computer literate and don't play other games. (you forgot one, Ace )

Not forgot, left out on purpose because it really does not have anything to do with my point, nor is that attribute 'exclusive' to flight sim games.

Originally Posted by von Pilsner

I get what you are saying, but I would like more people to play WWII flight sims, not less.

No, I don't think you 'get' what I am saying, that or you don't mind kid-os shooting down friendly planes in a coop because they think they are cool

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I need to add another fact

fact.. most if not all new games require a cutting edge PC, as did IL-2 when it first came out.

As with most problems with FPS it is the user not the game. We are all guilty of it from time to time. The problem is NOT with the game!! The problem is with the user! Because most modern games will auto detect the hardware and set the settings accordingly. Than before even flying 30mins the user runs to the options menu and tweaks all the settings to HIGH or VERY HIGH.. than said user plays the game and wonders why it is a slide show.. And than sit back and blame Oleg for the slide show.. It's Oleg's fault for putting those options in there!!

No mater what Oleg does it is a loose loose.. because if Oleg left those options out, a year or two from now when todays cutting edge hardware is in the bargin bin for $40 people will complain that Oleg did not include enough options to take advantage of the 'new' hardware

[Anvilfolk]

I'd just like to say that I believe certain people are misinterpreting the results. My option to vote "Not sure" (or even "no") has nothing to do with the state of the game. I would vote the same if CoD ran perfectly on my crappy machine.

I just don't like the pay-per-everything model of RoF... it really hinges on the "Pokemon syndrome" that humans are prone to. People like completeness, it's part of our nature. It's like buying a puzzle but only getting half the pieces. If you want the rest of the pieces you have to pay for each one. How can you not want to finish the puzzle? Turning a profit from something you can't really help is something I'm not comfortable with. Also, I'm a grad student and can't afford this stuff... that may account for some of it


I'd be OK with large packs at reasonable prices. I'd jump on a Pacific Theatre expansion if it included significant amounts of aircraft and wasn't priced like a full game. That's why I went with "Not sure" instead of "No".

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by kendo65

Oh come on Blackdog. I expect better than that of you on this forum. I stand by what I wrote in my last post. There was a lot of noisy debate pre-release and increasing signs that things were not all good, but it was completely possible (up until the Russian release at least) to believe that the released product would be rather more 'polished' than it turned out to be.

It's entirely possible that some of your comments below are addressed to other people more than myself, but seeing as your post follows directly on from points I raised i think I need to respond.



I've never pre-ordered a game before either (also Collectors Edition) and I'm still glad that I did. I've also never used the word 'cheated' (though others have). I never considered cancelling my order after the Russian release, because I wanted to support the devs, because I was looking forward to the game so much and because even at that late stage it was possible for many of us to believe that the game would still be ok. With hindsight there was a lot of wishful thinking involved. In my own case a stubborn disbelief that the devs would let it out in that state without being 'open' with us about the issues first.



I respectfully disagree. I remember that week very clearly. There was a lot of noise, conflicting opinions, mounting disbelief. Desperate attempts to get accurate translations of what was posted on the Sukhoi forums (Google Translate !! ). As I said - with hindsight it's possible to accept that myself and others were (willfully) deluding ourselves. At the time - NO!




I actually bought my monster PC about a month before the Russian release

Blind faith? Maybe. Foolish? Probably, though again hindsight makes it obvious - it wasn't at all the case at the time. My choice and my responsibility and I take that one on the chin.



Someone else I think.....



In your opinion. You're a credit to this community and I for one value your patience and commitment. But the people who seem to have got the most out of the game are those like yourself who strongly value the fine detail technical aspects above other facets - landscape, anti-aliasing and 'pretty pictures'....

I'm pleased that you and others can. In my own case I can't suspend my disappointment with the other aspects of the sim enough to want to put the effort into learning the technical details. I need to have a believable sense of reality from the visual aspects, AI and several other areas first.

Please allow me the right to decide what is most important to me in how I play and approach the game without somehow being dismissed as a lightweight.


Back on topic - For the record I voted yes in the poll for buying add-ons. I really want to see this sim become what it can be.

Feel free to move this post if needed.

Well thought out reply, even though i wasn't addressing you in my previous post. That being said, i still disagree with some of your points but i also agree with some

People take note, the above post is the way to disagree with other posters in a public forum. I won't reply so that we won't derail the thread further (plus i think i've said all i need to say on the matter), it would be a shame to have to move your post when it could serve as an example to others.

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Anvilfolk

I'd just like to say that I believe certain people are misinterpreting the results. My option to vote "Not sure" (or even "no") has nothing to do with the state of the game. I would vote the same if CoD ran perfectly on my crappy machine.

I just don't like the pay-per-everything model of RoF... it really hinges on the "Pokemon syndrome" that humans are prone to. People like completeness, it's part of our nature. It's like buying a puzzle but only getting half the pieces. If you want the rest of the pieces you have to pay for each one. How can you not want to finish the puzzle? Turning a profit from something you can't really help is something I'm not comfortable with. Also, I'm a grad student and can't afford this stuff... that may account for some of it


I'd be OK with large packs at reasonable prices. I'd jump on a Pacific Theatre expansion if it included significant amounts of aircraft and wasn't priced like a full game. That's why I went with "Not sure" instead of "No".

I'd say the grad student bit has quite a bit to do with it ~S~

But then with this type of Market which isn't big it may be the only way to go..I'd rather keep paying for more content/packs/upgrades than Juat have a great game that will fizzle to nothing and then nothing replaces that.

We all know these markets are small at best and I think it's a good idea for DLC but I do agree with you, the price has a major factor here

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Vote YES to splinter the online comunity.

It just wont have the amount of pilots original IL2 did online with a pay for per plane/instrument business model, dont you guys see that?

34 Me109 varriants @ $7 per plane = $238 + intruments @$2-5 +no mods= few pilots online.

$15 per bomber variant anyone?


A free variant + ai content every month and an expansion every so often would be great.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Voted 'No' as there is so much wrong with what I've already paid for.

Once the basics are put right free of charge then I'd be willing to, as I already have with RoF.

'Just Flight' recently had a sale selling the basic CoD for £13.99.
I bought two collector's editions on release for £50 each and was happy to do so in order to assist the developers, as I'm a ten year IL2 supporter.

Here we are 4 months later, waiting for a new game engine, new sound engine, new lots of other stuff, no comms, insane AI behaviour, multiplayer only possible without trees, useless track editor etc etc, without so much as a hint as to progress since the 6th of August.

This now has led me to change my whole opinion and attitude towards the developers from one of trust and total support to one of mistrust and total disappointment. Whatever internal politicking, mis-management and/or staff changes led to this sorry situation is absolutely none of my concern as an end user and consumer.

It also means that whatever 'expansions' are released for CoD, I won't buy them until they come down in price from the initial release price, and not at all unless and until the basic game becomes as useable and enjoyable as IL2 Sturmovik, DCS A-10 or RoF.