|
|
#451
10-06-2009, 07:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Remember I am not proposing really auto trim: I am proposing triggering the trim action at a speed of change equivalent to a real life trim wheel;
- if you stop pushing the button, the A/C will not be completely trimmed, - if you change the attitude of the A/C during trimming, the A/C will not be correctly trimmed and you will have to do it again (= releasing the button and push it again) This is quite close to RL equivalent of retrimming. You will have a perfect trim only if you let the time to the trim to reach its intended position, without having changed A/C attitude in the mean time: again this is close to RL behavior. What you may not realize is that it is possible to obtain a far better trim with a proper control (or the system I propose) than with a rotary, even if you are trained to use the rotary. In RL, you can obtain perfect trim...each time! With a rotary, it is approximate at best: to test it, relase the stick when you think you are in trim and look at what happens... So the perfect trim the IA does can and should be yours... As I said, the lesser evil would be insta-trim: you push the button, and voilà! you are trimmed...a bit easy but you still need to think about trimming action...and the full point is, more often than not, one does not think in time about trimming! You need to re-trim for each attitude change or RPM change: in manoeuvers this means all the time! I can tell you that this is not a cheat at all, considering the limitations of our setups; you would just remark that your flying and A/C performances would be of better quality, exactly like in RL, that's all... JV RL flyer... Last edited by JVM; 10-06-2009 at 07:59 PM. |
|
#452
10-06-2009, 08:10 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
The only problem I have with achieving perfect hands-off trim is either a) the aircraft doesn't possess full 3-axis trim (the most usual problem), or b) the center detents on X45's rotaries effectively eliminate a small but significant area from being available on each axis because the rotary can't be moved to these positions without springing into the detent. This is why I don't understand people complaining in reviews that the Logitech G940 has detent-less trim wheels. I don't think that people realise that detents aren't an advantage for a trim since the hands-off position changes all the time. Other than those two problems, one of which wouldn't be improved by your system, and the other of which is a hardware problem, I don't see how your system would actually make any noticeable difference other than meaning that I have less control over the trimming of my aircraft, and that it would take longer to achieve a trim change (which is perhaps more realistic). I just don't really understand how it's an improvement, but I'm quite happy to find out why it might be. 
|
|
#453
10-06-2009, 09:43 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Not sure if this has been asked before and I'm not about to read through 40+ pages
Is there any possibility of any of the higher quality of MOD aircraft that have been produced ever being "officially" added via one of the future DT patches? The Spitfire MK.XII, MK.XIV and the A3 FW spring to mind and I'm sure many of you know about the high quality Whirlwind and Lancaster that are being worked on over at RAF662. Just curious as I would love to see some of this work officially recognised. |
|
#454
10-06-2009, 09:50 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
 The Spit XII and XIV are the only ones I have personal experience of that I'd say were up to the right standard. The flightmodels I can't comment on (they definitely aren't uberplanes), but the models certainly are almost perfect.
|
|
#455
10-07-2009, 01:25 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Next q:
Dear DT, could you please (if you have not done this yet) outline your aims and areas in which you would like to hear the suggestions, and describe areas in which you will not do anything, and thus do not accept any ideas? Previous ~15 unanswered q's: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=433 |
|
#456
10-07-2009, 02:17 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Remember I am not proposing really auto trim: I am proposing triggering the trim action at a speed of change equivalent to a real life trim wheel;
- if you stop pushing the button, the A/C will not be completely trimmed, - if you change the attitude of the A/C during trimming, the A/C will not be correctly trimmed and you will have to do it again (= releasing the button and push it again) " In my CH setup with elevator trim set to the Coolie hat (emulating typical real world setups) it already works exactly like that. You can Blip trim (as is the typical pilot action in most electric setups irl) or if you feel the need just hold the coolie hat switch down for as long as you dare. Not forgetting that even in WWII some aircraft had electric switch activated elevator trim ... the Fw190 series for example. Now if YOU choose to map your trim to a slider then IL2 behaves exactly as it should emulating a manual trim wheel.i.e the rate and degree of trim is directly proportional to your slider input. Stop the slider and trim input stops... thats how it works on manual trim wheels. So the system existing in game right now is flexible. It gives the USER the option to emulate manual trim wheels (map trim to a slider) or electric activated switch trim (map trim to a switch). What it doesn't emulate is the spring trim button system employed in some some sailpanes ... and neither should it. I also see little reason for change what we have works just fine. Last edited by IvanK; 10-07-2009 at 02:54 AM. |
|
#457
10-07-2009, 03:21 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I understand and agree with a part of what you say IvanK: it is indeed possible to map the trim a rotary or a slider, and in appearance an electrical trim controlled via rocker switch in a RL A/C will not behave differently in IL2 if controlled also by a rocker switch…
The problem is that this works…in a kind of approximate way, even if it is obvious that you do not realize it! A trim is a device controlled in a very precise and sensitive way: for instance a manual trim pitch control like a wheel allows the pilot to adjust the attitude of his A/C with such precision that it can fly level for dozen of miles without re-trimming it (this will not work on a Mustang with the rear tank!). This pilot can do that because the direct consequence of trimming is a change in the force the pilot has to exert on his stick to keep it at the position associated with the sought-after attitude. This particular sensatory cue is totally absent from a joystick for obvious reasons (why do you think joystick controlled modern fighters and transport aircraft use an auto-trim?) so the only way to control your trimming state is to look at your display to check if with the trim value you have input via your rotary the attitude of the A/C does not change: if there is a change trim again, and check again… Needless to say, this can work with a certain precision in a cruise phase of flight, but in maneuvers or in a landing pattern where the re-trimming need is permanent, you do not have this luxury, so you trim, yes, but not with too much precision! This is probably why the AI aircraft are flying so well: they are by essence auto trimmed at all times on all axis’s so have always the best performance (this is specially true for yaw where being out of trim means drag increase, not so much for pitch trim). Another missing element (always there in RL) is the fact we have no visual clue of the trim “neutral” position which is an absolute necessity if you want to pre-trim your A/C at take-off: on yaw trim equipped high-torque aircraft you need to position your trim in order to help you keep your trajectory otherwise it is a lot more difficult, like with A/C without yaw trim (cf Bf 109!). It is also useful in pitch when the fuel quantity/payload loading as a large influence on your aircraft balance. The solution I propose (assuming it makes programming sense for the realistic “trim variation” time; for a simple “set proper trim instantly” request there should be no issue) allows you to fly in trim if you think about it (like in RL) including a certain amount of time to re-trim, depending of how far out-of-trim you are, and also depending on the fact you finish the operation; if you get distracted you may have improved your trim state, but not obtained perfection: all of that is also realistic... JV |
|
#458
10-07-2009, 03:40 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
You're right as well, in that given the much smaller size of a stick rotary compared to a trim-wheel, it's hard to be as precise. Anyway, I never considered it to be a bad idea at all, I hope DT consider it.
|
|
#460
10-08-2009, 07:40 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Please, to the powers that be, Team D. is there an e-mail address or place where aircraft info and data can be sent to you? a place where you can be contacted to discuss data? The pilot/engingineer who is willing to give and discuss the information needs contact information..
I asked previously and got no repsonse..
__________________
ASUS P8Z68 V Pro Gen3 Intel i53570K 3.40 GHZ G.Skill F3-17000CL9-8GBXM EVGA Nvidia GTX 680 Video Graphics ard WD Black WD1002FAAEX 1TB Cooler Master HAF 922 Corsair Enthusiast Series TX650 V2 650W 46" Samsung LCD HDTV Win8 x64 |
 |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Linear Mode
