@Devs: Stop the Central nerfs - its enough

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Winger

109s cannot outdive - A spit even dives faster than a 109. If you try to follow and gain while diving youll shred your aeilrons or elevator. I have never seen a spit fall apart from a fast dive.

Have you ever tried to follow a 109 in a dive (you flying a Spitfire)? Go and try that.

FYI, structural damage occurs at cca 420mph IAS (aileron and elevators fall off) and you will lose wing if you pull too hard at that speed. Structural G limits are modelled for all a/c in the sim since the latest RC2 patch. Have a go in a Spitfire before you claim something like this.

Originally Posted by Winger

109s can hardly Outclimb - you know the meaning of the word HARDLY?

Depending on the pilot of course.

Originally Posted by Winger

109s can in no way outturn any allied planes - spits can dive with serveral hundred mph and the pull and turn on a dime wich would leave nothing but a puddle of bodyliquids in a real plane with that G-load.

I thought you ment outrun as in horizontal flight, but nevermind. 109s are still faster FYI. The gap is smaller now as it should be (between e.g. 109E and Spit 100 octane at S/L.)

Originally Posted by Winger

And while doing so they dont get the slightest Blackout.

Again, have a go. If you pull too hard you will B/O easily. Same for every aircraft in the sim. Nice addition btw with the structural G limits.

Originally Posted by Winger

On the other hand having the hurri so closely matched to the 109 is plain wrong. The hurri was clearly inferior to the 109. Currently we have either a too good performing hurricane or a too bad operforming 109. Your choice.

Go fly a Hurricane, it is actually inferior in every aspect except for turn rate. In this RC2 it's not a flying brick anymore so that's good news. The problem with the RAF fighters is and the reason why they need even more love that except for IIa and 100 octane Hurricane, they all struggle at certain altitude and you need to fly them at lower boost to stop shaking. The 100 octane Hurricane is nice indeed but certainly not as close to the 109 as you think. The only exception is at high alt, there might be something wrong with one of them. We can't compare to other fighters due to a bug but my bet is the 109 top ceiling and high alt performance.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Winger

109s cannot outdive
109s can hardly Outclimb
they can hardly outrun
109s can in no way outturn any allied planes
Winger

Salute

Please provide testing/videos which prove your claims.

In fact, the 109's previous to this series of patches had a huge performance advantage over the British planes, which was because the Spitfire and Hurricane were not achieving even 1/2 of their historical performance in the climb, and only 2/3's of their historical performance in top speed.

And to make matters worse in the previous patch, the Hurricanes were much too heavy, and the 109's could outturn them. Completely wrong. Even the German test reports, done by among others, Werner Molders, the leading Ace on the German side and the father of their tactical doctrine, on the 109's vs the Spitfire and Hurricane and Curtis H-75 were conclusive:

Before turning fights with the Bf 109 E type, it must be noted in every case, that all three foreign planes have significantly smaller turning circles and turning times. An attack on the opponent as well as disengagement can only be accomplished on the basis of existing superiority in performance.

And this German test was against the Spitfire and Hurricane with two pitch props.

Prior to the patches, the situation was so poorly modelled in the game that even players who had poor skills, or no skills at all, could absolutely dominate in the 109's. It led to a lot of blue pilots getting bad habits, thinking they could turn and burn down on the deck, blow all their energy, and then if a Spitfire got behind them, to be able to simply pull up their nose and zoom away from any danger.

No longer. If you come over Britain, you will need to have an altitude advantage, and you will need to keep your speed up and use your climb advantage to maintain your height advantage.

This is absolutely historical. The 109's did not fly over Britain at low altitudes, they rarely came over at heights less than 20,000 up to 30,000. Only after the failure of the German day bombing campaign were the 109's assigned to the 'Tip and Run' fighter-bomber raids, those were based on surprise and evading the radar by flying low, but in fact, they suffered large casualties to the point the missions were discontinued.

Considering the fact most of the online server missions involve German bombers coming over at 15,000 ft plus, where both the Spitfire and Hurricane are both still crippled by the engine cutout bug, you should have zero difficulty in succeeding if you fly smart. On the other hand, if you drop down to the deck and wander around at low speed, you ARE going to be shot down. Quite deservedly too.

As it stands now, the Spitfires are still too slow in level speed, I am not making a huge fuss about this in the interests of balance, but they historically could achieve 315 mph on the deck, now they do approx. 300 mph.

The 109's are also too slow down low, (not sure about up high) and I personally would like to see them achieve 480 kph on the deck at 1.35 ata, which would put them on a par with the Spitfires for top speed.

They should not have their turn performance improved.

[SNAFU]

Wow, 7 pages! Like in the good old days....

I remember vanilla Il2 1946 maps with the Bf109E4 vs SpitVb. Great were those days and one of the best planes setups I remember. Was hard but I never had so much fun flying a 109. Maybe these days will return someday, but gues I have to wait for the Vb as adversary for a few more years. Until then I maybe learnt to fly CloD also...

[Ze-Jamz]

Just sort out the FM's please Devs on both sides....This is getting boring now

I certainly wont entertain whos got the biggest **** competiton and copy n paste loads of biased rubbish from whatever side

Bloomin kingergarten in here

[trademe900]

Originally Posted by Winger

109s cannot outdive
109s can hardly Outclimb
they can hardly outrun
109s can in no way outturn any allied planes
Siince last RC the acceleration of the 109 has been DRASTICALLY reduced. Even when diving vertical it takes ages to get to 600 compared to post patch.
I think its really enough IF KEPT DOING SO ONE SIDED.

If there is any more performancegain towards red side there wont be any fun left flying blue. Currently its bearable. Even if the last joker the blues have are their mineshells. If it goes any further the balance is broken.
So please devs: Either change both sides to the same direction so that competitive fighting remains possible or leave it be.

Winger

You are truly a joke if you think the 109 is not competitive with hurricane or spitfire in this patch. The 109 has far better armament, can outclimb, outrun and it is not far behind in turning performance.

You must be absolutely terrible if you can't outclimb red planes in the 109, the red planes still overheat badly too and can't use high rpm at altitudes above 10k.

News for you- ENERGY ACTUALLY MATTERS NOW. Although 109 still has advantage if conditions are equal, conditions never are equal and you can't now just outclimb and outspeed red planes in any given situation now.

You will see that the good 109 pilots like Atag_David_Red will still beat good spit pilot without too much trouble. The rest of the red pilots in the meantime have had to face terrible odds, persevered and have learnt a lot.

Go learn how to fly.

[David198502]

i woudlnt attack winger in such a way like you just did trademe...dont get personal mate!

and btw, you are not completely correct with your statements....the 109 suffers in performance as well at high altitudes,...and in fact, the hurri100 octane can keep up in speeds with the 109 at ~6000meters...

and the 109 is indeed far behind in turning performance if the RAF pilot turns not like a complete idiot..then the 109 has no chance to keep up in a turn(probably correct)....

i just want to say, why attack him?although i neithe agree with his initial statements, he may just got used to the previous flight models,...and now needs to cope with the new situation....so no reason to call him a joke,terrible and tell him to learn to fly...

[Winger]

Originally Posted by trademe900

You are truly a joke if you think the 109 is not competitive with hurricane or spitfire in this patch. The 109 has far better armament, can outclimb, outrun and it is not far behind in turning performance.

You must be absolutely terrible if you can't outclimb red planes in the 109, the red planes still overheat badly too and can't use high rpm at altitudes above 10k.

News for you- ENERGY ACTUALLY MATTERS NOW. Although 109 still has advantage if conditions are equal, conditions never are equal and you can't now just outclimb and outspeed red planes in any given situation now.

You will see that the good 109 pilots like Atag_David_Red will still beat good spit pilot without too much trouble. The rest of the red pilots in the meantime have had to face terrible odds, persevered and have learnt a lot.

Go learn how to fly.

GOSH. Read what ive wrote. Goddamnit and stop interpreting like you think is correct. I mean it how i wrote it.
I said with no word that i CANNOT outclimb......................
I said with no word that i cannot outrun.... In fact i wrote that the 109 IS actually competitive. Just that correcting performance even more towards "pro red" would destroy the competitive level of gameplay we have. Blue side has the slight advantage of speed and climbingperformace. While reds turn a heck of a lot better and dive as good. Its good how it is. Nothing else was my intent to say.
I know since day one of Clod that energy matters and the only tactics i use in 109 is BnZ since every other tactics is suicide in that plane. I KNOW THAT! Who the heck told you guys that i am trying to outturn and then get beating and complain. I DID NOT!!!! So why the heck do you folks imply i would?
READ man please READ PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! God my nerves.... I should just not respond to such ignorant posts at all. Forums are my death someday *ommmmmmmm*

Winger