Head Tracking with Cliffs of Dover

[Stipe]

I can afford it, but don't want too. It's not good enough price/performance wise and because they are trying to fight the whole world.
Top reason is this:

Forced obsolescence
Gamasutra: "How quickly does this sort of tech become outdated?"
NauralPoint: "As fast as we can make it outdated?"
All TrackIR cameras work with the OptiTrack SDK and the latest 64bit drivers but not the latest software (although TrackIR 2 and SmartNav 1 are disabled in the driver INF file).
TrackIR 1 & 2 cameras excluded in v3 software and higher, limiting them to 2DOF.
TrackIR 1 & 2 cameras excluded from encrypted interface introduced in v4.1.036 software and used by newer games.
TrackIR 3 cameras require purchase of software license for 6DOF with v4 software.
TrackIR 3 cameras and below excluded by v5 software.

Removed functionality
Camera image cropping removed in v3 software and above.
Mouse emulation moved into separate executable (TIRMouse.exe) and restricted to games only in v4 software and above.
Mouse override delay removed in v4 software and above.
Mouse button hotkeys removed in v4 software and above.
TrackIR 4 and above not back compatible with software v3 and below.
More precise single point 2DOF tracking removed in v5 software.
Camera orientation control removed in v5 software.
Preferred object size removed in v5 software.
Recording and playback removed in v5 software.

I don't want to buy a new version every year or two.

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by wolf_rider

mouse look is an alternative to naturalpoint

Is it an equivalent alternative or just a lesser alternative? Will mouse look do what i need it to do like freetrack? Prove it. Knock yourself out.


There is a little thing called developing, that could well assist you in the situation you want there. Mouse look (aka freelook) is an alternative, the method of hooking into it to suit the needs to be arrived at... This has been mentioned before.

"Developing" is a verb. So you admit mouselook is not an equivalent functionality to freetrack at this time.


i seem to remeber that was the case anyway in the prehacked version of il2 (i could be wrong but that is what i seem to remember, even with tir proper). I haven't run il2 since it was hacked


I assure you it works that way in stock game since 4.08. If you don't play the game, why post here? Don't answer that.

.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Stipe

I can afford it, but don't want too.

There is the exact crux of the problem

Originally Posted by Stipe

I can afford it, but don't want too It's not good enough price/performance wise and because they are trying to fight the whole world.
Top reason is this:

Forced obsolescence
Gamasutra: "How quickly does this sort of tech become outdated?"
NauralPoint: "As fast as we can make it outdated?"

to put the quoted excerpt into its proper persective...

How many versions of TrackIR have there been, and what advances have there been in the technology?

We've released 4 models so far, with continuous improvements. Increased responsiveness thanks to higher frame rates, better smoothing algorithms, and resolution enhancements. We've widened the field of view, so users can enjoy a broader range of motion. At first TrackIR was just emulating a mouse, so it was a big jump to have it supported in games as it's own separate input, and another big jump to add full 6DOF support (because then TrackIR could do a lot of things that just weren't possible with mouse-look). We've also done a lot to improve light filtering and tracking algorithms, so you don't have to worry about interference from reflections that occur on your glasses, or a shiny forehead, etc.

How quickly does this sort of tech become outdated?

As fast as we can make it outdated? It's tricky to nail down from a tech perspective, because the system is potpourri of special components, carefully combined for max performance at min cost. We don't talk about it as much, but alongside the hardware design and software improvements, we've been honing the ways we effectively acquire and mix components. I think gyros and accelerometers are already outdated, since they just can't guarantee the level of fidelity that optical offers, but they still seem to be popping up in the latest console controllers because they've come down in price. This cost-effective mix keeps everything moving very fast.

From a broader perspective, excellent 6DOF tracking without markers of any kind may be possible within 5 years. This seems like the Holy Grail at the moment for any optical tracking device. But we doubt that quest will end up with a solution that's as fast, precise, and affordable as TrackIR. For example, we've improved on our initial device for 5 years now, but that first version still offers more precise tracking data than an EyeToy. For game players, motion tracking is already available and will just be refined with different tech. So we're working to stay well ahead of the curve behind the scenes, and reinforce that premium head tracking isn't going away any time soon. "


http://gamasutra.com/view/news/10729...on_Tracker.php

Originally Posted by Stipe

All TrackIR cameras work with the OptiTrack SDK and the latest 64bit drivers but not the latest software (although TrackIR 2 and SmartNav 1 are disabled in the driver INF file).
TrackIR 1 & 2 cameras excluded in v3 software and higher, limiting them to 2DOF.
TrackIR 1 & 2 cameras excluded from encrypted interface introduced in v4.1.036 software and used by newer games.
TrackIR 3 cameras require purchase of software license for 6DOF with v4 software.
TrackIR 3 cameras and below excluded by v5 software.

Removed functionality
Camera image cropping removed in v3 software and above.
Mouse emulation moved into separate executable (TIRMouse.exe) and restricted to games only in v4 software and above.
Mouse override delay removed in v4 software and above.
Mouse button hotkeys removed in v4 software and above.
TrackIR 4 and above not back compatible with software v3 and below.
More precise single point 2DOF tracking removed in v5 software.
Camera orientation control removed in v5 software.
Preferred object size removed in v5 software.
Recording and playback removed in v5 software.

I don't want to buy a new version every year or two.

all that must mean you are running a very old system then?

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

.

That's certainly some extrapolating you've done there




it is an alternative..argue it any way you like, it is an alternative

develop it properly and you could probably knock yourself out

mouse look is an alternative, regardless of how much twisting or inferring you may attempt

and I've been waiting for CoD since then, plus hoping to keep up with developments. You don't have a problem with that, do you??

it was about then the sim was hacked (iirc)... before the hack, TIR only had 3DoF support (iirc) as the cockpit 3d modelling wasn't set up for the full 6Dof... leaving gaps and missing parts in the model (iirc)

[Stipe]

W-R I'm just waiting for you to start:" how do you afford food?" "do you eat old meat?"
everything isn't related. Unless you want it to be. Or make it. Why do you have the need to incorporate every single thing into a head tracking discussion is beyond me.
No, i dont have very old system. It's not new either. It get's the job done. I upgrade things around me if they are that much better then previous version and it's worth the money.
I said track ir is not. For me anyway.
And all this is pointless. Devs needs to include freetrack dll. If they don't it's theirs fault not NP. You simply don't buy the game. Period.

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

That's certainly some extrapolating you've done there

Guess your not up to the challenge tonight, so I won't push it. Well anyway, you've done a good job on the post count today. Again, we thank you for your services. Keep up the good work! I'm out.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Stipe

W-R I'm just waiting for you to start:" how do you afford food?" "do you eat old meat?"

don't have to you've already said you can afford ~

Originally Posted by Stipe

everything isn't related. Unless you want it to be. Or make it. Why do you have the need to incorporate every single thing into a head tracking discussion is beyond me.

Last time I looked, it is a head tracking thread. Am I missing something

Originally Posted by Stipe

No, i dont have very old system. It's not new either. It get's the job done. I upgrade things around me if they are that much better then previous version and it's worth the money.

the gamasutra article you mentioned seems to say 4 is better than 3 which was better than 2 and that again was better than 1. It seems like like development and progress in action... just like Intel and AMD, include nVidia and ATI in that as well

Originally Posted by Stipe

I said track ir is not. For me anyway.

Fair and reasonable... the NP software, or parts of it, wouldn't be for you either then?

Originally Posted by Stipe

And all this is pointless. Devs needs to include freetrack dll. If they don't it's theirs fault not NP.

the call is to provide access for other headtracking, not just one particular product.

Originally Posted by Stipe

You simply don't buy the game. Period.

I've got every release




*Edit

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

Guess your not up to the challenge tonight, so I won't push it. Well anyway, you've done a good job on the post count today. Again, we thank you for your services. Keep up the good work! I'm out.

None of that however has any bearing on the topic at hand, Blaster... the topic at hand is the inclusion of other forms/ variations of headtracker. do you agree?

[Stipe]

I will keep using freetrack and I hope NP get's hacked out of this world.There
Just so you will have someone to bark at. Good night.

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

None of that however has any bearing on the topic at hand, Blaster... the topic at hand is the inclusion of other forms/ variations of headtracker. do you agree?

You have been serving up MouseLook as a viable replacement for Freetrack throughout this thread. It is not. Unless you can prove otherwise, it is red herring suggestion that you make. Good night.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

You have been serving up MouseLook as a viable replacement for Freetrack throughout this thread. It is not. Unless you can prove otherwise, it is red herring suggestion that you make. Good night.

Crikey, and it wasn't that long ago either... the alternative to the NP 6DoF is the Mouse Look (aka Freelook)

Originally Posted by Stipe

I will keep using freetrack and I hope NP get's hacked out of this world.There
Just so you will have someone to bark at. Good night.

now that that is done and dusted ...

should we get back to the consensus reached on having alternative (clean) forms of headtracking included?