Frankly, these lasers...

[266_sqn_lloyd]

Ok here it is! I know exactly what he is referring to when he mentions these lasers.

Firstly, to those i know it all army gun ho gentlemen who say that this is all correct - then frankly your completely wrong - most of the time from the perspective of early Spitfires which did not use tracer rounds then you would not see anything apart from the actual hits i.e. smoke and maybe some combustion - only later models was there tracer and so on to point 2.

Secondly, tracer fire could be seen but because of the barrel twist all tracer round would be seen as a slight spiralling effect and not (straight elongated laser type effect.)

So point being yes he is correct that it looks wrong as they look like lasers, and two there would actually be vapour trails which they do not show.

And that’s final - no come back just do your research!!!!

[Necrobaron]

Originally Posted by 266_sqn_lloyd

ok here it is! I know exactly what he is referring to when he mentions these lasers.

Firstly, to those i know it all army gun ho gentlemen who say that this is all correct - then frankly your completely wrong - most of the time from the perspective of early spitfires which did not use tracer rounds then you would not see anything apart from the actual hits i.e. Smoke and maybe some combustion - only later models was there tracer and so on to point 2.

Secondly, tracer fire could be seen but because of the barrel twist all tracer round would be seen as a slight spiralling effect and not (straight elongated laser type effect.)

so point being yes he is correct that it looks wrong as they look like lasers, and two there would actually be vapour trails which they do not show.

And that’s final - no come back just do your research!!!!

lol!

[kimosabi]

Pew pew pew! Lazors rawk!

[Heliocon]

Well I am not military, but have seen plenty of gunfire etc. Like I said in an earlier thread, its a perspective problem. When firing or getting shot at from straight on they look more like dots, when parallel they are bars. But as someone else mentioned, it may just be these problems:
1. Tracer is too thick for daytime, at night when there is a dark background the tracer would "glow" brighter (although they look very distinct when you see them) versus in day you would see it radiating light as much (so in the pics it looks too thick, whether thats is actual geometry or just bad lighting effects I do not know.
2. It just looks alittle weird to see a tracer frozen in mid air like in the photos, they move so fast, at close range you can even track them with your eye.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by 266_sqn_lloyd

Ok here it is! I know exactly what he is referring to when he mentions these lasers.

Firstly, to those i know it all army gun ho gentlemen who say that this is all correct - then frankly your completely wrong - most of the time from the perspective of early Spitfires which did not use tracer rounds then you would not see anything apart from the actual hits i.e. smoke and maybe some combustion - only later models was there tracer and so on to point 2.

Secondly, tracer fire could be seen but because of the barrel twist all tracer round would be seen as a slight spiralling effect and not (straight elongated laser type effect.)

So point being yes he is correct that it looks wrong as they look like lasers, and two there would actually be vapour trails which they do not show.

And that’s final - no come back just do your research!!!!

Since you're getting a bit aggressive here with not much more than a "take it or leave it" attitude to back up your assessment, let me just say that my "research" involved firing dual 20mm Rheinmentall cannons very similar to the ones found on many German fighters of WWII. They shake, they kick up dust, they have quite a few moving parts and quite a lot of wiggle room for the barrels to vibrate (it's very perceptible, you can just grab the end of the barrel, give it a shake and you can see and feel it moving inside its mount) and still the tracers appear straight as an arrow.

The first time we fired them in training there was about 200 soldiers all going "wow, so that's what they really look like? nothing like the movies!" all at once.

I wish i had their phone numbers available so you could call them and have them confirm it for you one by one. Care to share what YOUR research is?

As for your comment on the Spitfires not using tracer ammo:
a) if it's not using tracers the point is already moot and
b) it's a load-out option in the game so you can do the same if you want to

You can like or not like the tracers, that's your opinion and i don't care enough to convince you otherwise. However, the same goes for my opinion and unless you're a qualified eye doctor who can prove me blind, i'll stand by what i saw with my own eyes in real life and not on some computer screen or TV.

It's perfectly fine to have your opinion and personal sense of taste in the matter, however that doesn't make your opinion somehow better, more realistic or factual unless you have some similar experience as a reference to compare to. No offence meant or taken either way, just trying to explain that if you want to convince those of us who've seen these things fly in real life you'll have to try much harder and provide some background of personal experience, a theory even loosely based on principles of physics/science or a credible reference.

[The Kraken]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

Well I am not military, but have seen plenty of gunfire etc.

Real-life or videos...?

2. It just looks alittle weird to see a tracer frozen in mid air like in the photos, they move so fast, at close range you can even track them with your eye.

Indeed, even people who do have military experience have most likely not seen WW2 tracer ammo fired perpendicularly to them at close range - and if they have, they probably had better things to do than an appearance analysis

[winny]

Originally Posted by 266_sqn_lloyd

Ok here it is! I know exactly what he is referring to when he mentions these lasers.

Firstly, to those i know it all army gun ho gentlemen who say that this is all correct - then frankly your completely wrong - most of the time from the perspective of early Spitfires which did not use tracer rounds then you would not see anything apart from the actual hits i.e. smoke and maybe some combustion - only later models was there tracer and so on to point 2.

Secondly, tracer fire could be seen but because of the barrel twist all tracer round would be seen as a slight spiralling effect and not (straight elongated laser type effect.)

So point being yes he is correct that it looks wrong as they look like lasers, and two there would actually be vapour trails which they do not show.

And that’s final - no come back just do your research!!!!

Bold statement, partly correct (as in the use of 'flame tracers' was limited in the BoB RAF wise)...

3 types of tracer were available (I keep repeating this sorry..)
2 were flame tracer one was smoke tracer. (is this what you're refering too when you say vapour trails?) I've never seen any footage of vapour trails being left by bullets.

Depending on your viewpoint the flame tracers would either look like bars of light (to the side) or dots of light (from directly behind).

If anyone would care to actually think about what they see every day they would soon realise that light from very bright objects streaks when moving. I can move an led torch in circles rapidly to make one continuous circle. In daylight. To say that bright objects moving fast don't streak is the exact opposite of what actually happens.

[badfinger]

So, the only reason the tracers look like lasers is that George Lucas decided this was how a laser shot would look, if you could see one?

This whole debate is an incredible waste of time.

binky9

[robtek]

Originally Posted by binky9

So, the only reason the tracers look like lasers is that George Lucas decided this was how a laser shot would look, if you could see one?

This whole debate is an incredible waste of time.

binky9

Not entirely correct, real spacefights would be really uncool in a movie theatre, as would real laser beams be.
So George Lucas decided to use the cool flight mechanics and tracers from wwii combat footage, just replace the background with space and the corsairs with x-wings / zeros with tie-fighters -> voilá: a cool spacefight!

[LukeFF]

And to think we don't even have the Fw 190 yet...